Dumbledore's attitude (was Re: On lying and cheating)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 165512


> Carol responds:
> You raise some interesting points here. How can we reconcile "what is
> right" vs. "what is easy" with the Slytherinish tactics used by
> Dumbledore to get Slughorn to Hogwarts (balanced by Slughorn's own
> tactics, including Transfiguring himself into a chair and pretending
> to have been kidnapped by Death Eaters to avoid going to Hogwarts and
> yielding up the true memory)?

Pippin:
We need to distinguish between being  manipulative or coercive
and being indirect.  To my mind it's only manipulation in the 
harmful sense if the motive is concealed. It's no secret to 
Slughorn that Harry and Dumbledore are trying to get that 
memory, and nothing is made conditional on Slughorn's 
cooperation, so it's hardly coercive.

Compare Riddle, who pretends to Ginny that he only wants to
be her friend, or young Draco who pretends that he wants to
duel with Harry when his real purpose is to get him in trouble
with Filch. That's manipulative.

But refilling charms?
The existence of refilling charms is hardly a secret, nor are we
told that it's bad manners to use one, so you can't really say that 
Harry made Slughorn lose track of how much he'd drunk. 
No reasonable wizard should expect to keep track by how empty 
the bottle was getting any more than they would judge the capacity 
of a car or a trunk by how big it looked from the outside.

Similarly, Dumbledore made no secret to Fudge that
as long as Fudge continued to maintain that Voldemort had not 
returned, he and Fudge had come to a parting
of the ways and Dumbledore would be doing as he thought best 
from  then on. He didn't try to bully Fudge into cooperating 
with him. He also didn't pretend to be on good terms and then 
attack the aurors without warning--he warned them that he 
might have to hurt them if they tried to take him in.

Dumbledore does have a secret motive when he deals with Mrs. Cole, 
but it's not *his* secret; to tell her the truth would betray the existence 
of the wizarding world and in the view of wizards would result in
a renewal of a conflict which in the past led to some very unhappy 
situations for wizards and muggles alike.

As Dumbledore says, the truth must be treated with great caution;
I'm sure his remark is meant to recall Churchill's "bodyguard of lies."
The plain fact is that when it comes to saving lives, many ethical
systems  consider that the ends *do* justify the means. 

To adhere so much to rules and principles that it puts innocent
lives in danger is a Gryffindor weakness well demonstrated by
Percy. Slytherin cunning and willingness to set the rules aside is
needed as a counterweight, but it should never be indulged in 
just to make one's own life easier -- that's where I think canon
is going with this, anyway.


Pippin