Satisfaction of the story to date (was: I Hate Horcruxes Society)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 163379

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> > > Mike previously:
> > > And where was the advancement of Harry's magical skills [in 
> > > HBP]? He learns a few of the "Princes" spells, but what about a 
> > > full years worth of DADA under the best DADA professor Harry 
> > > has ever had? Did he learn *Nothing* from Snape's class during 
> > > the entire year? <snip>
>
> > Annemehr responded:
> > Mike, I agree with these points of yours regarding Harry's failure
> > to learn from Professor Snape, and a seeming failure to apply 
> > himself to his studies altogether.
> >
> > I really felt that Harry showed a similar lack of growth, and even
> > regression, in other ways in HBP. <snip>

Mike now:
Thank you Annemehr, these were the sentiments I was trying to 
express. Harry's failure to apply himself in years 1-5 can be 
explained away as typical juvenile male behavior. And other than 
being forced to learn new spells (the Dementors in PoA and his 
participation in the TWT in GoF), he doesn't really apply himself in 
the first five years. (Yeah, I know he taught the DA. But what new 
spells did Harry learn?) That is the character Harry. That's how he 
is written. I can accept that. 

But after he finds out he is the "Chosen One" at the end of OotP, how 
can he be shown as the still uninterested youth of his first five 
years? There is more of the "hormonal-Harry" in HBP than the guy 
destined-to-bring-down-Voldemort-who-better-start-getting-prepared-
Harry. If that isn't regression it is at the least an appalling lack 
of progression. Where's the urgency? Where's the resolve that he 
seemed to have in the Weasley's broomshed? Harry is more interested 
in Quidditch and how his Captaincy will be viewed in retrospect than 
whether he can cast a defensive spell non-verbally. Huh? This is the 
priority our hero has set for himself? IOW, what Annemehr said:

> > Annemehr continued:
> > Harry really doesn't seem ready to be the hero, yet, does he? 
> > <snip>


> Carol responds:
> 
> I agree with both of you although I hope that Harry learned some of
> what Snape taught him and that those lessons will come back to him
> when he needs them, without Snape's presence in his daily life to
> distract him. While Harry may not learn to "close his [mind]",
> surely he'll learn to "shut his mouth" --that is, to cast nonverbal 
> spells, particularly defensive ones. 

Mike interjects:
But when? Isn't this year (6th) the year to be learning to cast non-
verbals? Which one does he show any ability for, after this year? 
None that I see, at least none that he should have been learning in 
DADA class. Shouldn't he be able to cast some of them non-verbally by 
the end of the year? How about that "Petrificus Totalus" that 
Hermione learned to cast verbally in year one? Shouldn't Harry be 
able to cast that one non-verbally by now?

> Carol continues: 
> Maybe he and Ron (who also needs to learn that skill, apparently) 
> will practice them with Hermione). 

Mike, unable to help himself, interjects again:
Our hero can't muster enough self-discipline to learn some of these 
skills himself, without Hermione's help. I'm not disagreeing with you 
Carol. On the contrary, I think you're spot on with what needs/will 
happen. And that's the problem. It's not really believable as far as 
the story has progressed. I think I'm channelling Lupinlore now. ;-)

> Carol continues:
> And I also think that Snape's alternative method for dealing with 
> Dementors will come into play somewhere, if not via Harry then via 
> Ron, Neville, or Hermione, none of whom has ever successfully 
> cast an Expecto Patronum in the face of a real Dementor. <snip>

Mike:
I think Snape's alternate method has something to do with Occlumency, 
if not the skill itself. So, it will have to be someone besides 
Harry, won't it?

> Carol continues:
> To be fair, Harry did learn to Apparate in HBP, which will certainly
> help him, <snip>

Mike:
So did most every other sixth year by now. Help him, yeah it already 
has, but not exactly advancing him towards defeating Voldemort, does 
it?

> Carol continues:
> and the old defensive spells (Expelliarmus, Stupefy, and
> Petrificus Totalus) seem as good as any others *defensively*, and
> I don't think that JKR wants her young heroes using *offensive* 
> spells, most of which seem Dark and cruel or deadly. <snip>

Mike:
Yes, the **old** spells, my point exactly. Nothing new. Nothing more 
powerful. Is this all the WW has to offer? Spells a 12-year-old can 
master? And have you ever heard the phrase *the best defense is a 
good offense*? 

> Carol continues:
> I don't think new spells are the answer to Harry's problems, nor 
> do I think he'll need to disarm the Horcruxes himself. (Surely 
> Bill's curse breaker skills are in the book for a reason, and 
> he'll have other help, too, I'm sure, right up to the last moment,
> as he always does.) <big snip>

Mike:
You may be right on both these points. It still doesn't answer why 
Harry doesn't bother to learn new spells. And you do obliquely point 
out that Dumbledore fails to inform Harry how to disarm Horcruxes. 
Could some of Snape's lessons possibly be on disarming curses? You 
know, those lessons that Harry learned nothing from.


> Carol continues:
> To the extent that this series is a Bildungsroman, JKR can't have 
> him learn the most important lessons in the penultimate book. They 
> have to be saved for the last book. He also needs to realize, as 
> JKR herself has said, how much he already knows, and put it all 
> together--much as we, the readers, have been trying to do, but with 
> more success (I hope!).

Mike:
I don't need him to learn the most important lessons by now. But I do 
think that JKR should have shown him to be a little better prepared. 
Or lacking that, with a little (alot) more purposeful drive to 
prepare than she has shown Harry to have so far. (BTW, what's a 
Bildungsroman?)


> > Annemehr:
> > I actually believe we *don't* know what JKR will be up to in the
> > final book. I'm hoping some of what I wished to see in HBP, JKR is
> > withholding for DH -- and that she *will* make it work. After all,
> > she has toiled through seven volumes toward the denoument of a 
> > work she said she believed in from the beginning. <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> Exactly. HBP dealt with Snape in several roles (Double-agent!Snape,
> DADA teacher!Snape, Healer!Snape, and the HBP), with Horcruxes and 
> the history of Tom Riddle, and (shudder) with teenage hormones.

Mike:
By that shudder, I'm assuming you agree with Annemehr and myself on 
this point. <eg>

> Carol continues:
> School lessons, one of the most interesting aspects of the earlier 
> books (for me) got shortchanged. Fortunately, IMO, so did 
> Quidditch. <snip, agree with the rest>

Mike:
I liked them both, though I know JKR hated the Quidditch. What can I 
say, I'm a jock, I like the sporty stuff. :P

> > Annemehr
> > who most likely will be skulking into the local supermarket or
> > Walmart in the wee hours of Release Day, trying to avoid spoilers

> Carol, who will resist all temptation to read the last chapter first
> or even to look at the last page of the table of contents for fear
> that the titles may give too much away but may sneak a peak at the
> first two pages of the ToC to see if Snape's name is mentioned

Mike, who is going to brave B&N again but may have to get an iPod and 
turn the volume way, way up, given what happened the last time at his 
local B&N.