Oyez, Oyez, the I Hate Horcruxes Society is Now in its Second Session

[esmith222002]

No: HPFGUIDX 163428

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> lupinlore wrote:
> >
> > Well folks, it is beginning to look like Horcruxes are the key to
> the seventh book, very unfortunately.  Personally, I strongly 
suspect 
> > that the "Deathly Hallows" of the title are none other than the 
> > Horcruxes themselves, which leads to all sorts of unfortunate 
> > corollaries.
> > 
> > The most unfortunate is that I think we will have to suffer 
through 
> > the hunting and destruction of all four of them -- each and every
> one in wearisome detail.  I don't think we are going to have relief
> from coincidences or "off-screen" developments.  I don't think two 
or
> more of the horcruxes are going to be hidden in the same spot.  I
> don't think the horcruxes are going to turn out to be unimportant
> after all.  And I don't think anyone off-screen, be it Snape, 
Regulus, 
> > Wormtail, or God in a Clown Suit, is going to destroy any of 
them. I 
> > think the heart of the book is going to be four mini-quests after 
> four seperate "hallows," followed by a major confrontation at the 
end.
> > 
> > Now this leads to some opportunities.  Ron/Hermione could be 
> > developed in the course of the quests.  Also perhaps one of the 
> > Hallows is hidden at Durmstrang, which could provide an appearance
> by Victor Krum.  But much else we have been promised or kind-of 
> > promised, including a Weasley wedding and an Umbridge come-
uppance, 
> > or that we desire, such as an end to Percy's arc, will have to be 
> > sandwiched among, around, and between McGuffin chases.  
> <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> Oho! Finally, a point that Lupinlore and I agree on--the Horcruxes 
are
> surely the least interesting of the questions and issues that need 
to
> be resolved in DH. But I wouldn't leap so quickly to the conclusion
> that the Horcruxes are the unhallowed "Hallows." It still sounds 
like
> a placename to me, and I think "The Hogwarts Hallows" of a rejected
> title indicates that it's the burial place or places of the Four
> Founders (or three, if Slytherin isn't there). And I see no reason 
why
> Harry would not need help from others, not only Hermione and Ron but
> Lupin, Bill Weasley, and, yes, Severus Snape. I don't think that JKR
> is going to let all those beautiful subplots die by turning DH into 
a
> McGuffin hunt (and, though I hate to say it, the Horcruxes are not
> true McGuffins as their destruction really is necessary to the 
defeat
> of Voldemort. They're not *just* plot devices that the characters
> think are important; they do serve an ultimate purpose.
> 
> Consider GoF, in which the TWT tasks served several plot purposes 
but
> nevertheless set up an unavoidable three-part structure for the 
novel.
> JKR managed to bring in a great many other important elements, from
> the Death Eaters and the Unforgiveable Curses to the Pensieve and
> Snape's past as a DE and spy for Dumbledore. (BTW, she also informed
> us for the first time that Dementors are blind. I don't think we 
knew
> that in PoA. Hermione certainly didn't.) So take comfort; she can
> still tell a unified story, tying together many seemingly diverse
> elements, despite the accursed Horcruxes (which, I, too, wish had
> never been introduced).
> 
> Also, while I do see the Tarot/Founders connection, and consequently
> am leaning toward the Ravenclaw Horcrux as being the wand rather 
than
> the tiara (maybe the tiara is a red herring? Why mention not one but
> two tiaras rather pointedly if they're not going to play some 
role?),
> but we still have Nagini, who doesn't fit the pattern but will have 
to
> be killed whether or not she's a Horcrux (and I do think she is, 
but I
> won't go back there again). And that, I think, is where the Sword of
> Gryffindor will come into play. DD has said that it isn't a Hocrux 
and
> I believe him, but I do think it's a powerful magical object that 
will
> be used to kill Nagini as it was used to kill the Basilisk. It isn't
> encrusted with blood-red rubies for nothing. It has powers we 
haven't
> yet seen, tied in with Fawkes, I'm sure of it. And it's the sole
> remaining relic of Godric Gryffindor, which ties in with the relics 
of
> the three other Founders that were turned into Horcruxes (two for
> sure, one only probably), but it is not itself a Horcrux. 
> 
> Anyway, I hold a more optimistic view than you do of the plot of the
> story. I have a feeling that it won't feel artificial and
> prefabricated. And we do know of one more puzzle piece besides 
Snape,
> Umbridge, and RAB that JKR is bringing into play--house-elves, which
> she mentioned in an update to her website. And while I'm not fond of
> house-elves and dislike SPEW rather passionately, that bit of
> information should give you hope that the loose ends from OoP will 
be
> resolved after all. And I do hope that a visit to Durmstrang is on 
the
> agenda, though with Krum no longer a student and Karkaroff a 
carcass,
> I don't know how that can be arranged.
> 
> Carol, who expects to learn more about Mundungus, Aberforth, and the
> Order's activities in general, and to see more of Mrs. Figg, Rufus
> Scrimgeour, Percy Weasley, and Viktor Krum, just to name a few 
people
> other than the regulars


Brothergib adds!

Not sure where to snip here and retain the coherent argument between 
Carol & Lupinlore so apologies for the long message!

Point 1; Harry has to destroy the Horcruxes.
I agree with Carol. Harry will need help and lots of it. It took DD a 
whole book to track down one Horcrux, and then it practically killed 
him. IMO Bill will help Harry destroy the only Horcux he will find 
i.e. the locket. With regard to the others, I remain convinced that 
Snape's role is to destroy the remaining Horcruxes. He is the most 
gifted wizard with regard to the Dark Arts, and LV now has every 
reason to trust Snape with their whereabouts.

Point 2; The Hogwarts Hallows.
Again I agree with Carol, although the title probably has several 
simultaneous meanings. Certainly one of these could mean the 
Horcruxes, but I think the graveyard of the founders is also an 
appropriate meaning. I can't remember where I read this, but someone 
made the point that Harry and LV always confront each other in some 
place with underground/underworld connotations. An underground 
graveyard at Hogwarts certainly fits for a final confrontation. 
Considering that it is LV who is fascinated by the founders, I would 
suggest that he would want to go there for some reason (see below).

Point 3; Nagini
I disagree with Carol. I think this is DD's biggest mistake. I don't 
believe that having spent so long collecting his Horcruxes, that LV 
would suddenley panic and use a muggle death to encase his seventh 
(and therefore most magical one could argue!) piece of sole in a 
Horcrux.

Point 4; Ravenclaw artefact
My belief is that LV remains one Horcrux short. I think it likely 
that the Gryffindor & Ravenclaw objects are at Hogwarts - hence LV 
gave up trying to obtain them due to DD's presence. I still believe 
that LV had intended to make the prophecy a Horcrux using Harry's 
death. However, now that DD is gone, I think LV will attempt to 
obtain the final object from Hogwarts once again. We know the sword 
is there, but what if LV is aware that Ravenclaw was buried with her 
valuable artefacts. It could explain why LV and Harry would have one 
final confrontation in the Hogwarts Hallows, where Harry has been 
lured by LV (kidnapped Ginny?) to be used to generate a final Horcrux!

Loads of speculation, with little canon - but in my mind at least, it 
fits quite nicely!

Brothergib - completely depressed that Xmas is over and now facing a 
cold London January!