[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's Characterization (was: Satisfaction of the story to date )

[Chancie]

No: HPFGUIDX 163430



  Ken said:
  Mike I share your feeling on a gut level that Harry isn't ready, that
  he simply hasn't even begun to learn enough. I would note in passing
  however that Harry is learning far more than the pages of the book
  lead us to believe most of the time. Were you surprised by his OWL
  results? I wasn't but I was. I wasn't because I thought those results
  were expected of him, that the author planted those expectations in
  us. I was because I am at a loss to see how he got to that point, the
  books give us the expectation but then portray a character who would
  seem to be a very poor student. For all that has been said about how
  poor a teacher Snape is for Harry and how Harry is simply incapable of
  learning from him (and I understand where those feelings come from and
  agree with them) Harry did surprisingly well in his potions OWL. The
  text of the book is consistently misdirecting us from Harry's true
  potential and actual performance as a student. It is also grossly
  overstating Snape's failings as a teacher.


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  Chancie:

  I understand where your comming from, and agree with you on many levels, but I see things a bit differently.  

  I don't think that the books so much show a failure on Snape's part as a teacher, only his failure to let go of an old grudge. Harry's poor potions work and grades was a result from the unfair treatment he recieved from Snape, not because Snape was a poor teacher.  And in turn Harry doesn't try to learn from Snape, because of his own feelings. Harry finds it easier to preform in his OWL's because he's free of Snape's torment, and sabatoge, and is in turn more able to focus on the task at hand, and not concentraiting on how much he hate's Snape!  Also, I believe (sorry for not including chapter info, all my HP books except HBP are still in their packing boxes...) that the student's were only required to follow the directions for a potion, not nessisarily recall one from memory. It seems to me, as long as you could read, and know a few basic bits of information, that this task should have been somewhat easy.

  Also, we don't know what an O, E, A, D or T, in the Owl's is equal too.  For example we know that E is exceeds expectations, but what exactly are the "expectations" they are looking for?  How wonderful must a student preform to be considered Outstanding?  Until we can understand what is required for the grades, I think that it would be very difficult to judge whether or not the grades were equal to what we see in the pages from Harry's school work.  Another example of this can also be taken from Nevile, we know he's probably one of the worst student's in Harry's grade, yet he still got an A in transfiguration.

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  Ken again:

  Harry cannot oppose Voldemort strength to strength. Harry could not
  even follow what was happening when Dumbledore and Voldemort dueled at
  the Ministry. Harry is gifted but he is still a typical 17 year old
  boy. He does not embody the wisdom and prowess of a 40 year old the
  way some young prodigies do. I am sure he is going to walk the path of
  Luke and Frodo to success. Perhaps, I hope, that means like them he
  will survive. Harry has lost his Gandalf, his Obiwan, even as Frodo
  and Luke lost theirs. He still has his Sams and he does have many of
  them. He has a Darth Vader figure in Snape and he has a Gollum figure
  in Wormtail. In the end I don't expect his education will play much of
  a role although it certainly will be used to get him to the final
  showdown. He is already a match for most members of the wizarding
  world and he most likely never will be a match for Snape or Voledmort
  in direct combat. He has a bond of forgiving love with Peter and he
  has a bond with Snape that runs through his parents. The last is
  currently expressed only in hatred but it seems on the cusp of a
  dramatic shift. They were very close to connecting after the pensieve
  moment but their history with each other got in the way. All the signs
  point to Snape playing a crucial role for the good guys in the end no
  matter where his loyalties lie at the moment.

  This is not the story of a young gunslinger advancing to the top of
  his craft. This is the story of a young man learning to embody the
  goodness and love that the author says is epitomized by Dumbledore,
  however hard it is for some here to see that. Harry is not going to
  stand atop Volemort's corpse at the end, smoking wand raised high,
  shrieking a challenge daring any and all to match his prowess. He is
  going to survive, if at all, by the skin of his teeth, with the help
  of others. He will stagger through the halls of a floundering battle
  station carrying the dying body of his now beloved potions teacher to
  an escape pod on the hanger deck, he will collapse on a spit of rock
  surrounded by lava flows and be rescued by a girl with flaming red
  hair riding a hippogriff, he may even die in the moment of his triumph
  like Beowulf. He will triumph, he will be a hero, he will not be the
  mightiest wizard who ever lived.

  Ken

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  Chancie:

  I couldn't agree with you more!  That is shockingly close to how I see the story playing out, and I couldn't have said it better! I think that if any of Harry's education will come into play in the final battle, it will come mostly from the things the trio learned in prepareing to tutor the D.A.  We know Harry sat reading those defence books and seemed to be quite caught up in them, I think it's possible that if he does come up with some mysterious spell that it's quite possible that it will have been from one of those books.  I also expect to see some long forgotten (forgoten by Harry of course, not by us) object to prove to be quite more valuable to Harry than he would have thought, Sirius's mirror, time-turner, or maybe the mirror of Erised?

  I also would under estamate the roll that Dobby will play in the final battle.  He's already stood in the way of Lucius when he attempted to curse Harry in CoS, and that was his master. But however JKR decides to end her story,  I'm certian that none of us will have predicted it exactly.  I can't wait for that book!!!!

  Chancie-who's shocked that she actually had time to write an actual reply without her kids interupting.


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