The Power of Harry ... (was: Harry's Characterization)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 163478

---  "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Mike wrote:
> <snip> I will disagree with Carol on this point; I do
> > think Harry has *the power* irrespective of what 
> > Voldemort gave him on that fateful Holloween night.
> > ...
> 
> Carol responds:
>
> ... interpret the line in the Prophecy, "He will mark
> him as his equal"? I take that to mean that the scar 
> both "marks" and holds within itself some of Voldie's 
> own powers, the powers that make Harry his equal.... 
> "the power the Dark Lord knows not" is surely the power
> of Love, ... the result of Lily's sacrifice. ... Harry
> has this "serendipitous confluence" of Love and Power. 
> No one but Harry has the scar that marks him as 
> Voldemort's equal. ...
> 

> Mike: 
> > He isn't Superman, nor even Spiderman. He's much 
> > closer to Peter  Parker. ... In this way I agree 
> > with Carol's characterization of "Everykid"....
> 
> Carol:
> Exactly. He's in some respects an ordinary Wizarding
> kid, not excelling in most of his classes, struggling
> to learn even some defensive spells despite DADA being
> his forte. ... the only thing he can do well is fly...
> ... an innate power, inherited from James. But the 
> rest, powers like Parseltongue that are rare in the WW
> but shared by LV and Harry, are the heritage of GH, 
> and it's those powers, plus Love ... that will make 
> the difference in the final confrontation. ...
> 
> ...
> Mike:
>  Did you realize that Snape hadn't yet cast a spell 
> when Harry's "Protego" knocked him back? That was 
> Harry's power, not Snape's power rebounding. 
>  
> ...
> 
> > Mike:
> > The *power* of love. In JKR's world, love is not just
> > an emotion, it's a power. It's in Harry's 
> > constitutional make-up, this power. And Harry has 
> > more of this *power* than any other witch or wizard, 
> > and *that* is why Harry is more *powerfully magical* 
> > than anyone. <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> I don't think that the power of Love, a ... form of
> ancient magic that IMO is ... opposed to the Dark magic
> ..., is the same as magical power in general. Voldemort
> is powerfully magical, more so, probably, than Harry 
> ... Dumbledore, also ...powerful and the greatest 
> wizard of the age, understands the power of Love magic
> and uses it, but it is not what makes him innately 
> powerful (...).
> 
> ...I don't think ...Harry is "more *powerfully magical*
> than anyone" .... I think he has some natural talents 
> (his genetic heritage), courage, and the reactions of
> a natural athlete ..., but James, too, had these traits
> and they did not enable him to survive. Nor did Lily's
> ability to love, ... Harry has their combined gifts or
> heritage, but more important, he has the powers that 
> reside in his scar, powers unique to himself and 
> Voldemort that forge a bond between them.
> 
> ...
> 
> Carol, sure that "the power to defeat the Dark Lord" is
> not innate but resides in the scar (but also sure that 
> the scar is not a Horcrux,...

bboyminn:

I tried to trim this post down as much as I could, and
I'm afraid what I left is still far more than I'm going
to say, but I did my best.

This is a tricky subject, on one hand, I agree with Mike
in his assessment of Harry's innate power, but on the 
other hand, I agree with Carol's brilliant assessment of 
the /nature/ of Harry's power. Where I disagree with 
Carol though is on her assessment of Harry's natural 
innate ingrain in-born magical power. I think it is far 
more that she is giving Harry credit for.

While Carol acknowledges Harry magical heritage, I don't
think she is giving it enough worth. Harry isn't just
the product of two talented wizards (wizard & witch), 
he is the product of what I believe to be two profoundly
gifted people; way beyond-Hermione gifted.  

We have seen a few people in the series that stand out 
far from the crowd. The first and greatest is certainly
Dumbledore whose 'magical IQ' I would rate approaching 
+200. His ability is beyond anything anyone in the wizard
world can even comprehend. Next we have Tom Riddle, an
absolutely brilliant magically gifted student, who was
far and away above and beyond even the best students of
his time. While I give that status to Tom, I don't 
necessarily give it to Voldemort, who I think has become
so deluded by his own sense of infalibility and 
self-worth that his genius is severely compromised. 
Then we have James and Sirius, they wree also gifted 
far above and beyond the other students of their time. 
The  intellectual IQ and Magical IQ certainly puts them 
in the profoundly gifted catagory. 

Again, we can use Hermione as the standard. We could even
say that Hermione is an intellectual and magical genius,
but she is not even remotely in the league of Tom, James,
or Sirius. 

Now to Harry; Harry is basically a 'B' student, but 
grades (or marks if you prefer) are not a measure of
true genius. Genius does not guarantee achievement. 
Albert Einstein was considered an idiot by his
secondary school teachers. Now, I'm not sure that I
am ready to push Harry up into the intellectual genius
catagory; it could go either way. But certainly given
that James and Lily were extremely talented, one can 
only assume that Harry also has inherited some degree
of that talent. The son of two geniuses is very likely
to be /smart/.

So why doesn't Harry do better in school? Why
hasn't he achieved things like the Marauder's Map or
Animagus? I think part of it is Harry upbringing. To
some extent, Harry has always had to suppress himself
at the Dursleys. Standing out is /standing out/ and 
that means being noticed and being noticed means trouble
at the Dursleys. Mush better, and much safer, to be 
quiet and unassuming. 

That type of conditioning from age one is very hard, 
nearly impossible, to break. This also accounts partly 
for Harry's reluctance to accept his 'Hero-Boy Who Lived'
status. That much too high a profile for a suppressed, 
stay in the shadows conditioned person like Harry to 
accept. Ron would love it and play it for all it was 
worth. Draco would love it and play it for all it was 
worth. James would love it and play it for all it was 
worth. But they all had very different upbringings than
Harry. They all had very supportive encouraging 
environments. 

So, through it all I see Harry constantly holding back,
and I can understand that. I somewhat did that myself 
in high school. In the small town I grew up in, it
wasn't good to stand out, so I just slide by as a 'B'
student, never doing homework or studying. I regret 
that now, because I could have been and done so much 
more. But at the time, that was what I preceive to be
the best method of surviving without conflict. 

Further, high school (or Hogwarts) does not really 
prepare you for life. It's just a basic set of 
information that all people should have. Note the 
achievement of Harry's classmate who we can assume are
average to above average. Compared to Harry, Ron, and 
Hermione what have any of the other students done; 
intellectually or magically? Not much to my eyes.
Yet, we have no reason to assume they will not grow
to be competent magically powerful individuals.

Just my opinion, but I think Harry has very substantial
magical power all his own. Though with most above 
average students, you would not expect that to really 
come out until they are out in life specializing in
what ever their field of choice is, and expanding 
their knowledge of magic based on their own immediate
needs. Most of the extremely powerful wizards we see
are quite old, and they have had many many years of 
experience and practice to hone their skills to an
impressive level. I think it is unfair to compare 
Harry to these older more experienced wizards.

I do agree that Harry's skill and talent is no match
for Voldemort intellectual and magical genius, nor for
his years of deep and intense magical practice. But
there is a big difference. Voldemort is a self-absorbed
egomaniac. Whereas Harry is a selfless, caring, 
uncompromising, compassionate, person with what I'm 
sure is a very substantial underlying magical power.

That said, I once again agree with Carol in her 
assessment of the /nature/ of Harry's power. But I think
she is very much shortchanging Harry in his own innate
power, which I think is substantial, and which I think
is yet to be fully realized. Einstein was a 'D' student,
and he seemed to have turned out OK. Certainly Harry, a
'B' student, who has couragiously faced that Darkest of
Wizards again and again, and lived to tell the tale, 
has magical power of his own. 

Now to one last aspect; when Voldemort is dead, will 
Harry's power leave him? That is will Voldemort's 
power leave Harry? I don't think so, I think the power
of his mother's love, and the power transferred by
Voldemort are now part of Harry. I don't think Harry
is borrowing power from Voldemort through the connection.
It's not like they have a magical/mental DSL line
connnecting them through which Harry is siphoning
Voldemort's power on an as-needed basis. 

I think what Harry has via his near death contact with
Voldemort, is now innate to Harry. Call it magic or 
whatever, but I think that power is now part of Harry, 
and part of him forever. So Harry's own natural innate 
power has been fortified by a couple of sources as Carol
so brilliantly explains, I say that that power is now
his and is as much a part of him as round glasses, 
messy hair, and green eyes.

Of course, that's just one man's exceptionally long
winded opinion.

Steve/bboyminn