The Power of Harry ... (was: Harry's Characterization)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 163493

---  "Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:
>
> Steve:
> > Again, we can use Hermione as the standard. We could
> > even say that Hermione is an intellectual and magical
> > genius, but she is not even remotely in the league 
> > of Tom, James, or Sirius.
> >
> > Now to Harry; Harry is basically a 'B' student, but
> > ... Genius does not guarantee achievement. ... James
> > and Lily were extremely talented, ... The son of two
> > geniuses is very likely to be /smart/.
> 
> Magpie:
> To me it seems a lot simpler to just accept that 
> although we're told about certain people being geniuses
> in the HP world, the world's not about intellectual 
> genius .... The magical system isn't written in a way 
> that much allows for it. ...
> 
> Mostly what you've got is physical ability and 
> cleverness, .... Very little of  anything studied is 
> exactly intellectual, yet we understand that Hermione
> is supposed to be brainy because she can wave her wand
> the right way on the first try. ... I can imagine Harry
> growing up to be like Sirius, but that to me does not 
> equal Harry revealing himself to be an intellectual 
> giant. More like Harry growing up to be an expert 
> swordsman.
> 
> Steve:
> > So why doesn't Harry do better in school? Why
> > hasn't he achieved things like the Marauder's Map or
> > Animagus? I think part of it is Harry upbringing. To
> > some extent, Harry has always had to suppress himself
> > at the Dursleys.
> 
> Magpie:
> We've been living in Harry's head for 6 years and if 
> he were hiding Einstein in there I think we'd know it--
> ... Harry does fine in school, and isn't a genius or an
> idiot.
> 
> ...
> 
> Magpie:
> But where has this ever been presented in Harry's thought
> processes when he'd rather play Quidditch than study or 
> have intellectual thoughts? ...
> 
> From what I got from Carol's post, she seemed to be 
> saying that he was a perfectly fine student, but that 
> what he's really known for and what his strengths are 
> lie elsewhere. ...
> 
> -m


bboyminn:

Apparently I've created the very misconception I intended
to disspell. Note in the very first paragraph above, I 
mention TWO types of genius; intellectual and MAGICAL.
They are not one in the same. Harry is above average
intellectually. Again, a reminder that genius and 
achievement don't go hand in hand. But I think, and while
I believe it firmly, I admit I have no direct evidence, that
Harry has immense untapped magical power. I think he is a
far above average wizard independant of his grades. Again,
compare his achievements with that of other students. 
As Carol, or someone pointed out, the graveyards are full
of very competent wizards who went up against Voldemort. 

Now Hermione on the other hand, has both intellectual and
magical genius. Though my point was that on both fronts,
she is on the low end of genius. Far and away above the 
other students, but still no where near Tom, James, or
Sirius in a magical or intellecual talent. 

The books imply to us over and over that Harry is a very
magically powerful wizard, and intellectually, I don't 
think he is a slouch even if his grades are only above
average. 

In making this particular arguement, all I am saying is
that Harry has vast untapped magical potential, and that
when and if he lives to be 100, he will be considered a
great and powerful wizard. Certainly, not even remotely
in the league with Dumbledore, but so very very very 
few are in his league. 

I'm saying that people are underestimating Harry's
magical potential. Certainly Tom, James, and Sirius had
both intellect and magical potential. Harry has moderate
intellect, but that doesn't diminish his magical potential
in my book. 

Take the Twins for example, they are a classic case of 
underachieving geniuses. They do poorly in school, yet are
able to apply magic with great skill. Their skill is 
certainly far above average; it even impresses Hermione.
My point here is that genius and achievement, especially
academic achievement, don't go hand in hand. Yet, in the
end, when sufficiently motivated, underlying magical 
power comes forward. 

Harry's problem is that he is so very rarely sufficiently
motivated, and what motivation he does have is twisted by
his upbringing. You can't deny that living with the 
Dursleys has adversely affected Harry. That it has shaped
his personality. Others may not see it, but I see it in 
everything that Harry does whether outgoing or introverted.
And I see it in his struggle in his school work, but I 
also sense the underlying  power that is not getting out. 

So, in summary, I was not intending to speak of 
intellectual genius, I was using magical genius as a 
metaphor for underlying magical power, something I think
Harry has. Again, this is hinted at in the books, but it 
is never clearly demonstrated to a large degree. Harry 
does have his achievements; the Patronus for one. Even 
Viktor Krum said he was impressed by Harry's skill. So, 
it is certainly there struggling to get out. 

I think in the final book, we will see Harry grow 
tremendously. I think we will get a much truer sense of
Harry's real underlying magical power.

So, in short (if that's still possible), I was merely
saying that I think people are magically underestimating
Harry.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn