CHAPDISC: HBP28, Flight of the Prince

[lealess]

No: HPFGUIDX 163576

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "colebiancardi" <muellem at ...> wrote:
>
> CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince,
> Chapter 28, Flight of the Prince

>1. Why so much blood?

Good question.  The only one we hear of being severely wounded is Bill
Weasley, probably because Harry is all-but-a-Weasley.

We've seen few spells that can cause bleeding: Sectumsempra, the candy
that the twins devise to cause nosebleed, Umbridge's pen.  I suppose
non-human creatures can also cause bleeding by injury, such as
Voldemort's snake.  Most bleeding, however, seems to be caused by
Muggle-type physical mishap.  One of the Death Eaters was bleeding in
the Department of Mysteries, probably caused by falling into something
or something falling on him.  Neville's nose was also bleeding at that
battle, caused by actual physical violence.  So, I think the blood in
this chapter is for dramatic effect, and the combatants are just
running into objects which cause them to bleed.  The blood is never
discussed again.

It seems strange that wizards don't have a handy spell to stop
run-of-the-mill bleeding.

2. Harry's state of mind is understandably chaotic and confused.
Yet, Harry seems to be holding his own with the Death Eaters
and he is able to jinx them successfully. However, against Snape,
he was unable to get one jinx or curse off fully. Why is that?

Harry is full of emotion, not deliberation.  Snape is more powerful at
this stage because he can control emotion, and he has determination. 
Also, Snape embodies the fears Harry has to overcome.  Harry is not
yet ready to do face them.  Plus (completely wishful thinking),
Harry's better sense tells him that Snape is actually acting for the
good.  Given this, Harry cannot effectively attack Snape.

3. Since Snape is able to deflect every one of Harry's spells,
do you think that Snape is an extremely powerful wizard or
do you think it is due to Harry's lack of experience in comparison 
with Snape? If the latter, explain why Harry didn't have this
problem in the battle from Order of the Phoenix? If the former,
who trained Snape to be so powerful?

Harry thought on his feet in the OOTP battle, but was better at
evading and tackling than chasing and spell-casting.  Snape is without
a doubt a powerful wizard.  He is probably primarily self-taught, from
personal interest in magic, years of self-defense, and observation of
the Death Eaters and the Order.  His personal gripes limit his power,
however.  In this instance, it seems Harry broadcasts his intentions
before Harry takes any action, so blocking Harry's spells is no
problem for Snape.

4. Much discussion has already been had on whether Snape
was imparting his last lesson to Harry with his advice of no
Unforgivable Curses, his reference to Harry's lack of nerve and 
ability, and his instruction to shut his mouth and close his mind.
Explain why you think Snape did this if it was not in order to
help Harry in the long run.

I believe Snape felt he was giving the most helpful advice he could to
Harry, in his usual unhelpful way, and that his advise is probably
irrelevant.  Why was he giving this advice?  An evil or OFH!Snape
wouldn't have wasted his time on lectures.  Given that Snape had
already "killed" Dumbledore and couldn't realistically expect
forgiveness from the "good" side, Snape couldn't have been hedging his
bets on Harry being able to defeat Voldemort -- there's no future in
it for him, expect for no Voldemort.  Deep down, it is only
Dumbledore's word, and Harry's improbable luck, that give him any hope
that Harry is really the Chosen One.  So, Snape in frustration took
the time to give advice, his last, desperate attempt to impart to
Harry knowledge that Snape valued, to help Harry, even in the face of
Snape's own eventual downfall.

5. Snape has the same expression of hatred on his face as he did
right before he killed Dumbledore. This is right before he tells Harry
that he is the Half-Blood Prince. A lot of discussion has been
generated around this expression when we've talked about
Dumbledore's death and the parallel of Harry's feelings in the cave.
We've never talked about this particular chapter and this same
expression on Snape's face. Do you think it really is the same
expression? The same feelings behind it? Those who believe that
Harry's feelings of hatred and revulsion are the same as Snape's
look of hatred and revulsion (self-loathing, perhaps?), explain
this same expression that it is this chapter. I hope question
made sense!!

Harry has just tried to use the Levicorpus spell, a spell his father
presumably used against Snape in the past.  Harry sees Snape's face
suffused with hatred... just as it was before he killed Dumbledore. 
Harry is not always correct in what he sees.  Harry sees it as
connected to the events on the Tower, but I think the hatred is
separate.  I think Snape is reliving his worst memory to some extent,
including its implications for him, the course he set for his life. 
Snape is still embroiled in a dispute decades old at that moment.  It
only when Harry calls him a coward for killing Dumbledore that Snape
is dragged into the present.

6. Snape loses his sardonic cool when Harry calls him a coward and
refers to Dumbledore's death. This is the only time during the battle
that Snape actually hits Harry with a curse. Why did Snape show his
weakness to Harry? What was it about that statement that pushed Snape
over the edge? Harry called Snape a coward earlier, yet Snape just
jeered at him then. Was it really about being called a coward or that
Harry accuses Snape of killing Dumbledore? This is my favorite
question, BTW. I can't wait to read the responses.

It was the justaposition of the two, cowardliness and the "murder" of
Dumbledore, the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.  Snape
is doing a job he does not want to do, but has promised to do.  He has
been given the most heinous of tasks, the apparent murder of his menor
and friend.  Nothing about it will end up good for him, except the
knowledge that he has kept his promise and has proven his
trustiworthiness.  Now he is devoid of even Dumbledore's support, but
he has to keep working to achieve whatever the plan is.  Then, Harry
drives home just how the world will see Snape's actions, right after
the events on the Tower.  The world will see Snape the way Harry does.
 It is understandable that Snape displays negative emotions at such a
moment of vulnerability, in order to deflect more destructive emotions.

But I think cowardice is an issue for "Snivellus".  He tries to fight
back when the Marauders taunt him.  It may have been concern about
being called a coward that got him to turn against girl-protector Lily
in his worse memory, that got him to investigate the Shrieking Shack,
that perhaps even got him to side with Voldemort.  Then again, Snape
has presumably been engaging in activities for Dumbledore that placed
him "at great personal risk," so calling him a coward makes a mockery
of all he has tried to do to atone for earlier mistakes, up to and
including the tremendously-difficult "murder" of Dumbledore.

For the record, I still don't think Snape "killed" Dumbledore, per se.
 He was an agent of death, but not a murderer.

7. When a DE curses Harry, Snape states that "Potter belongs
to the Dark Lord" and the curse is lifted. However, that doesn't
explain why Snape only deflects Harry's spells during the battle.
Snape could have issued a "Petrificus Totalus" curse on Harry, 
which would not have harmed him. Why didn't Snape do such
a spell? And who lifted the curse from Harry?

Snape needs Harry to complete Harry's destiny, and that means keeping
him safe from the Death Eaters.  Either that, or Harry was still a
student, one that Snape was probably sworn to protect.  The curse was
either lifted by the originator's lack of attention to it or was
lifted by Snape.

8. Hagrid has always defended Snape's trustworthiness.
Why is that? Is it just because of Dumbledore's steadfastness 
or something else? After all, Hagrid was around at Hogwart's 
when Snape was a student - does he know something more 
about Snape than the rest of the Order?

Hagrid is a half-blood outsider who was wronged by a more popular
student.  In spite of Hagrid's position, he remains an outsider.  He
and Snape have much in common.  I believe Hagrid knows more than he is
telling about Snape.

9. Do you think Harry got rid of important clues when he
rearranged Dumbledore's glasses and wiped the blood away?

Certainly not intentionally, because he doesn't have the cunning,
frankly.  Unintentionally ... gosh, these are interesting questions. 
I think Harry intentionally misrepresented the actions on the Tower,
just as he intentionally blames Snape for the events at the Department
of Mystery, so as not to examine his own culpability.  But he couldn't
help but show respect and affection to Dumbledore's corpse.  If he
destroyed evidence... unless Hermione is a really good detective, it
looks like Snape's a goner.

10. [I]f RAB is not Regulus Black, who is it?
If you believe it is Regulus, do you think he is really
dead or in hiding (RE: Dumbledore's conversation with
Draco). If in hiding, why didn't Dumbledore already know 
that this locket was not the real Horcrux? Why would 
he put himself through the whole experience in the
cave? Was it a setup?

The Order member on whom we will get more information will probably be
Aberforth Dumbledore. Perhaps his nickname is RAB, for Rabid something
-- goat-lover that he is.  Regulus -- I'd be disappointed if he was
developed as a character in book 7, just as I will be disappointed by
the development of Lily's character, or Aberforth's.  It seems a cheat
to leave such important information to the last book.  However, I
expect to learn more about all of them, and maybe even Eileen Prince,
in DH.

Your question about Dumbledore putting himself through an ordeal when
he should have known better is interesting.  I don't think it's
Regulus who is in hiding.  It is most likely Emmeline Vance or, as
some have argued, one or both of Snape's parents.  I can't see
Dumbledore putting himself and Harry through the cave ordeal in bad
faith, unless... Dumbledore was a Polyjuiced other, which I think
Rowling herself has argued against.

11. Did you feel that Dumbledore's death at Snape's hands was
subtle? Or too obvious and expected? Was this in keeping with
Rowling's normal style of ending her books?

Having a great affinity for Snape's character, for various reasons, I
did not expect Dumbledore's death at Snape's hands.  It depressed me
for days.  Then, Snape's probable fate depressed me.  Then, I rebounded.

12. Finally, what do you think of this chapter thematically? 
Do you feel this is the best chapter Rowling has written?

I think this chapter is too ambiguous at this point to call "best." 
The chapters that have stayed with me, which I can probably quote to
you word-for-word, are the ones in which Snape tries to teach Harry
Occlumency.

Thanks for the incredibly thought-provoking questions!

lealess