CHAPDISC: HBP28, Flight of the Prince (long)

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 163603

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1. Why so much blood? The blood in the corridor by the tower, bloody 
footprints, blood on the flagstones. Who was wounded? Malfoy? Snape?  
The blond DE? The brother & sister act was behind Harry, so it could 
not have been them.

Ceridwen:
I had thought that the blood was on people's shoes because of Bill 
Weasley having been savaged.  But with things so condensed in the 
summary, it does seem like huge amounts of blood.  It can't be from 
Fenrir Greyback, he was taken out in the upstairs corridor.  If they 
had stepped in Bill's blood - possible, I think Harry did - it would 
have dried before they got down seven flights of stairs, and 
certainly wouldn't have been in the entrance hall.

There is blood, not bloody footprints, near the Hufflepuff House.  
The Gryffindor rubies have been spilled, which was another bloody 
image for me.  An aside - was the hourglass broken on purpose by 
someone running by, or did it shatter like "My Grandfather's Clock" 
when Dumbledore died?

It does seem like someone was wounded.  But as to who, I don't know, 
other than Bill Weasley, and I don't think his blood on someone's 
shoes would track as far as this blood seems to have done.  Good 
question - now you've scared me.

2. Harry's state of mind is understandably chaotic and confused Yet, 
Harry seems to be holding his own with the Death Eaters and he is 
able to jinx them successfully. However, against Snape, he was unable 
to get one jinx or curse off fully. Why is that?

Ceridwen:
Harry is operating on "auto-pilot" for the other Death Eaters.  His 
hatred for Snape is personal.  His emotions, though chaotic and 
confused before now, never dovetailed with his attempts to cast 
spells until he fights Snape.  There's an entire history between the 
two of them, and it isn't a good history.  Coupled with Harry's 
wanting to hate Snape. in fact preferring to hate Snape, earlier in 
the book, and his emotions are in complete control of him.

3. Since Snape is able to deflect every one of Harry's spells, do you 
think that Snape is an extremely powerful wizard or do you think it 
is due to Harry's lack of experience in comparison with Snape? If the 
latter, explain why Harry didn't have this problem in the battle from 
Order of the Phoenix? If the former, who trained Snape to be so 
powerful?

Ceridwen:
I think Snape is a powerful wizard.  We've had hints in other books.  
Harry's no slouch, but he hasn't got the experience that Snape has.  
Harry also has his emotions clouding his judgement here.

Also, in places through the book, Snape seems to be reading Harry's 
mind, though more often than not without the circumstances set up for 
Legilimency.  When he walks Harry from the gate to the castle, he 
knows, or intuits, what Harry is thinking without having eye 
contact.  Snape seems to be able not just to Legilimens Harry, but to 
anticipate what he will do.  I'm not sure if this is due to Snape's 
abilities as a wizard, or to some connection between himself and 
Harry on another level.

4. Much discussion has already been had on whether Snape was 
imparting his last lesson to Harry with his advice of no Unforgivable 
Curses, his reference to Harry's lack of nerve and ability, and his 
instruction to shut his mouth and close his mind. Explain why you 
think Snape did this if it was not in order to help Harry in the long 
run.

Ceridwen:
I'm not sure if I ought to answer this at all, since I do think this 
is Snape giving his own last lesson at Hogwarts.  I think he was also 
releasing any frustrations and anger at this time, before going to 
Voldemort.

5. Snape has the same expression of hatred on his face as he did 
right before he killed Dumbledore. This is right before he tells 
Harry that he is the Half-Blood Prince. A lot of discussion has been 
generated around this expression when we've talked about Dumbledore's 
death and the parallel of Harry's feelings in the cave. We've never 
talked about this particular chapter and this same expression on 
Snape's face. Do you think it really is the same expression? The same 
feelings behind it? Those who believe that Harry's feelings of hatred 
and revulsion are the same as Snape's look of hatred and revulsion 
(self-loathing, perhaps?), explain this same expression that it is 
this chapter. I hope question made sense!!

Ceridwen:
I think Snape masks a lot of emotions as anger.  And anger can look 
like hatred.  In my opinion, Snape is in as much emotional turmoil as 
Harry is throughout this scene, but it only shows as hatred on his 
face.  He's genuinely angry that Harry tries to use his own spells 
against him.  He may also think that Harry is wasting his time with 
this pettiness after everything that's happened.  Once emotions are 
released, they all come out, so he's onto everything, and it all 
looks like anger, or hatred.  He's angry at James, he's angry at 
Harry, he's angry at the situation, he's angry at himself, in my 
opinion, of course.  And, he absolutely hates it.

6. Snape loses his sardonic cool when Harry calls him a coward and 
refers to Dumbledore's death. This is the only time during the battle 
that Snape actually hits Harry with a curse. Why did Snape show his 
weakness to Harry? What was it about that statement that pushed Snape 
over the edge? Harry called Snape a coward earlier, yet Snape just 
jeered at him then. Was it really about being called a coward or that 
Harry accuses Snape of killing Dumbledore? This is my favorite 
question, BTW. I can't wait to read the responses.

Ceridwen:
This is later in the scene, in the first place.  Snape's emotions are 
not getting any better, they're fraying.  Harry's using a schoolyard 
taunt, trying to hurt Snape, when nothing else works.  He's already 
emotional, though it only shows as anger or hatred, in my opinion.  
This was the last straw.

In the second place, the accusation, when applied to Dumbledore, 
really hurts.  I think that anyone killing anyone else, even if they 
hated their guts and thought they would be glad they were gone, will 
hurt afterwards.  Souls split in the Potterverse.  Does it physically 
hurt?  No matter which Alphabet!Snape is imagined, killing is not 
something routine for him.  Bellatrix said he got out of doing things 
with the Death Eaters, so it's possible that this was his first 
killing.  I won't even go into whether he killed Dumbledore or not 
here, that's speculation for other posts.  In the chapter's 
viewpoint, he did kill Dumbledore.  I don't think he wanted to, given 
his history of "slithering out of" such assignments before.

So, he is unable, in my mind, not to try and hurt Harry back.  He is 
reduced to the basic humanity: he hurts, he lashes out.

7. When a DE curses Harry, Snape states that "Potter belongs to the 
Dark Lord" and the curse is lifted. However, that doesn't explain why 
Snape only deflects Harry's spells during the battle. Snape could 
have issued a "Petrificus Totalus" curse on Harry, which would not 
have harmed him. Why didn't Snape do such a spell? And who lifted the 
curse from Harry?

Ceridwen:
I don't think Snape wanted to hurt Harry.  I lean more toward DDM!
Snape, so you know.  He is also fleeing, so getting involved in a 
duel, especially one with someone not as experienced as he is, would 
be ridiculous.

Issuing a "Petrificus Totalus" would have saved Snape the trouble of 
defending himself and allowed him to continue toward the gate, but it 
would have left Harry defenseless against any Death Eaters 
following.  If Snape did not want to hurt Harry, then he would not 
have left him wrapped like a present for some other Death Eater's 
frustrations.  Of course, being so emotionally overwrought, he may 
just not have thought of it, but I don't think so.

The curse was lifted by the Death Eater who was cursing Harry, at 
Snape's orders.  It's already been shown that they all looked up to 
him as a leader on the scene.  The reason given would be another 
justification to do as Snape said.

8. Hagrid has always defended Snape's trustworthiness. Why is that? 
Is it just because of Dumbledore's steadfastness or something else? 
After all, Hagrid was around at Hogwart's when Snape was a student - 
does he know something more about Snape than the rest of the Order?

Ceridwen:
I think Hagrid knows a lot.  He'll tell it, but only if the right 
words are used.  Sometimes, he doesn't even have it articulated in 
his own mind until someone asks or makes a statement that pulls it 
together for him: my opinion.

Hagrid has been at Hogwarts since the 1940s when he was a student.  
He became the gamekeeper, and would probably have been apprenticed to 
the former gamekeeper at Hogwarts to learn the job.  He's seen a lot 
of students, and he may have known or had dealings with quite a few.  
He's known Snape at least since Snape began teaching, and it's 
possible he knew him before.  He's positive about Snape in the 
books.  That could be from a true and unquestioning trust in 
Dumbledore, but it could also be from his own observations and 
knowledge of Snape.  Most likely, it's a combination of the two.  
Hagrid may still play a role in this part of the story.

9. Do you think Harry got rid of important clues when he rearranged 
Dumbledore's glasses and wiped the blood away?

Ceridwen:
I don't know.  I hadn't thought about that before you asked.  It's 
possible that he destroyed evidence, but the scene itself was moving 
for what it represented, Harry caring for Dumbledore as Dumbledore 
tucked Harry in at Privet Drive and slipped a note in with him.  I 
think it's a more distant echo to that, in the same way that the Side-
Along Apparation scenes from the beginning and end of HBP were mirror 
echoes of each other.

If he did destroy evidence, then the blood has more to do with the 
story than we thought.  If it does, then it too is an echo of 
Slughorn's liberal use of dragon's blood when he was trying to avoid 
being found.  Harry's actions could have been either, or they could 
have been both.

10. *(snipping background)*
So, the question is about R.A.B.- if RAB is not Regulus Black, who is 
it? If you believe it is Regulus, do you think he is really dead or 
in hiding (RE: Dumbledore's conversation with Draco). If in hiding, 
why didn't Dumbledore already know that this locket was not the real 
Horcrux? Why would he put himself through the whole experience in the 
cave? Was it a setup?

Ceridwen:
I think RAB is Regulus.  I think that, unfortunately, he is dead.  He 
may have been killed by Voldemort or by Death Eaters for leaving, as 
Karkarov was; he could have been killed by Voldemort for discovering 
(one of) his Horcrux(es); he could have been killed by whatever curse 
was on the locket, not having Snape around, or not an older and more 
experienced Snape around, to save him.  Since I don't think that RAB 
was hidden, then of course Dumbledore wouldn't know about the 
switch.  Dumbledore knew the potion would be dangerous, and to me it 
would lessen Dumbledore's sacrifice if he knew and was just using the 
potion to train Harry.

11. Did you feel that Dumbledore's death at Snape's hands was 
subtle?  Or too obvious and expected? Was this in keeping with 
Rowling's normal style of ending her books?

Ceridwen:
Anything but subtle!  I didn't expect it, though, if that's what you 
mean.  Reading that scene was like having someone take a bat and hit 
my head right out of the ballpark.  I was absolutely reeling.  I 
don't think this is Rowling's normal style.  She meant for us to 
reel, to reach fevered pitches of emotion.  She gave Dumbledore a 
resounding send-off.

And since she's said that HBP and DH are more like two halves of the 
same book, I'll answer for the middle of the other books, too.  No, 
this is not typical Rowling.  I think she really went over the top 
here.

12. Finally, what do you think of this chapter thematically? Do you 
feel this is the best chapter Rowling has written?

Ceridwen:
I loved the chapter.  I can't say if it was the best she's ever 
written since everything she's written comes into play here.  There 
is emotion and stress throughout the entire chapter.  If we were 
supposed to feel as if the world had just changed, then she met her 
goal.  I also think this chapter opens up a lot of possibilities for 
DH.  I would say that things mentioned in this chapter will be 
important in DH.

colebiancardi:
Thanks so much to Shorty-Elf for her fantastic help on making my post 
more understandable! All typos are my own.

Ceridwen, thanking colebiancardi and Shorty Elf for a very good 
discussion.