What might Snape consider cowardice?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 163716

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...>
wrote:
>
> Valky wrote:
> This translates into
> a Teen Snape who was into the evil sort of magic, hanging out with 
> the evil crowd, cursing James at every opportunity, *sneaking 
> around* trying to get the Marauders in trouble, basically being a 
> complete a*se but never actually recieving a punishment/detention or 
> admitting to himself or others that he was short of a great guy. <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> For the record, I see Teen!Severus as a more sympathetic figure, <snip>

Valky Now :

I'm thinking after reading your post that its not just Severus we see
differently to each other, but also James and Sirius. And our
respective ideas about James and Sirius affect and reflects on the way
we see Snape and vice versa. 

Where you appear to see James and Sirius as cold hearted, vain and
pretentious, even, I see them as idealistic, proud and careless. 
Where you see Snape as sympathetic, quiet and unassuming (taking the
pensieve scene for it) I take the Marauders word for it because I
understand them as idealistic and see of Teen Snape as intense,
baleful and supercilious, not all that different from adult Snape.   

>  The absence of detentions can hardly be held against him. I'd
> hate to be judged in that way. ("Never put in detention? She must a
> sly little tattletale!") 


Valky: 
LOL, :D

I actually disagree strongly with that. I think it can be held against
him, unless Sirius and Lupin are out and out liars, which I thoroughly
doubt. They say Snape gave as good as he got when it came to James and
'never missed an opportunity' to curse him. No detentions, means he
got well and truly away with seven years of cursing another student
and not necessarily always in a defensive sense.     




> I don't think Snivellus means what you think
> it means. I think it's a cruel play on Severus's name (like Peeves's
> "loony. loopy Lupin!" which for all we know could date to a time 
> when Severus had a head cold and was caught sniffling (or was 
> overheard crying because someone he loved was killed?) If he had 
> reached a point in his sixth year where he was following the 
> Marauders around hoping to get them in trouble, it was surely 
> because he wanted revenge for their treatment of him--and suspected 
> that they were up to something seriously wrong. Rather like Harry 
> following Draco to eavesdrop, IMO.

Valky:

I know we really only have a shell of James to go on in canon, but I'd
have to disagree with anything that looks to me like assuming from
that he is a hollow character. A lot of canon we do have on him
definitely contradicts it. It is really only Snape that has percieved
him as a hollow man, Sirius, Lily, Hagrid, McGonagall, Lupin,
Dumbledore tend to remember him differently and even Voldemort seems
to think James was a brave and upstanding character. I don't think
Snape is a reliable witness to James character, considering their
history, his view is definitely coloured with bold emotion, and so I
don't think James was the person Snape paints to Harry, regardless of
the pensieve scene. 

I do believe the pensieve scene is an 100% accurate representation of
the facts of that day, though, for the record. My indifference to it's
evidence stems from the fact that it was a day *at the end of their
fifth year*. There are at least five years of unspoken understanding
between these guys present in this scene. I cannot take this as though
it were Snape sitting under a tree on the first day of school because
it wasn't. They already hated each other, they had already hurt each
other many, many times, They knew what was going on between them, it
didn't need explaining. That is what I think James meant by his
offhand reply to Lily about why he was doing it, he understood and was
consumed by at least five years of the reasons, to such an extent that
he just expected everyone else to feel the same way and understand too. 

I think this is comparable to Harry's vendetta against Draco in HBP.
>From a bystander point of view, without knowing the history, one would
assume Harry was the bad guy sneaking around, stalking and throwing
deadly curses. But when we know the history, the pain and loss Harry
has suffered at the hands of the dark side which Draco has aligned
with, when we know how it has slowly consumed him over the past five
years, it becomes clear that he has lost his sense of reason and is
just going on gut instinct trying to avoid more pain and death in his
life. 

 


> Carol, not arguing that Valky is wrong, just presenting her own view
>

Valky.... same :)