The Power of Harry ... (was: Harry's Characterization)

[Michael]

No: HPFGUIDX 163782

> bboyminn:
> 
> Apparently I've created the very misconception I intended
> to disspell. Note in the very first paragraph above, I 
> mention TWO types of genius; intellectual and MAGICAL.
> They are not one in the same. Harry is above average
> intellectually. Again, a reminder that genius and 
> achievement don't go hand in hand. But I think, and while
> I believe it firmly, I admit I have no direct evidence, that
> Harry has immense untapped magical power. I think he is a
> far above average wizard independant of his grades. Again,
> compare his achievements with that of other students. 
> As Carol, or someone pointed out, the graveyards are full
> of very competent wizards who went up against Voldemort. 
> 
> Now Hermione on the other hand, has both intellectual and
> magical genius. Though my point was that on both fronts,
> she is on the low end of genius. Far and away above the 
> other students, but still no where near Tom, James, or
> Sirius in a magical or intellecual talent. 
> 
> The books imply to us over and over that Harry is a very
> magically powerful wizard, and intellectually, I don't 
> think he is a slouch even if his grades are only above
> average. 
> 
> In making this particular arguement, all I am saying is
> that Harry has vast untapped magical potential, and that
> when and if he lives to be 100, he will be considered a
> great and powerful wizard. Certainly, not even remotely
> in the league with Dumbledore, but so very very very 
> few are in his league. 
> 
> I'm saying that people are underestimating Harry's
> magical potential. Certainly Tom, James, and Sirius had
> both intellect and magical potential. Harry has moderate
> intellect, but that doesn't diminish his magical potential
> in my book. 
> 
> Take the Twins for example, they are a classic case of 
> underachieving geniuses. They do poorly in school, yet are
> able to apply magic with great skill. Their skill is 
> certainly far above average; it even impresses Hermione.
> My point here is that genius and achievement, especially
> academic achievement, don't go hand in hand. Yet, in the
> end, when sufficiently motivated, underlying magical 
> power comes forward. 
> 
> Harry's problem is that he is so very rarely sufficiently
> motivated, and what motivation he does have is twisted by
> his upbringing. You can't deny that living with the 
> Dursleys has adversely affected Harry. That it has shaped
> his personality. Others may not see it, but I see it in 
> everything that Harry does whether outgoing or introverted.
> And I see it in his struggle in his school work, but I 
> also sense the underlying  power that is not getting out. 
> 
> So, in summary, I was not intending to speak of 
> intellectual genius, I was using magical genius as a 
> metaphor for underlying magical power, something I think
> Harry has. Again, this is hinted at in the books, but it 
> is never clearly demonstrated to a large degree. Harry 
> does have his achievements; the Patronus for one. Even 
> Viktor Krum said he was impressed by Harry's skill. So, 
> it is certainly there struggling to get out. 
> 
> I think in the final book, we will see Harry grow 
> tremendously. I think we will get a much truer sense of
> Harry's real underlying magical power.
> 
> So, in short (if that's still possible), I was merely
> saying that I think people are magically underestimating
> Harry.
> 
> For what it's worth.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
>

I like this thread it make a lot of good points for a lot of points of
views.  I do agree with bboyminn here to a large degree.  Think there
are a few short falls in his argument.  

First he states that Harry hasn't had achievements like the Marauder's
Map or becoming an Animagus.  That due in part the fact that he
doesn't want to stand out.  But he has the DA being a great example it
under minded the current authority of the school and made him a symbol
for the students to rally behind even during a time when peoples trust
in him was low.  He has show no love for Draco long before he new of
family relation and I don't think even if Harry had known Draco before
 his first trip to Hoqwarts that is would have changed Harry's opinion
of him.  Even when it became apparent that this was making Harry
standout among student he didn't back down.  All the while having
repeated encounter with LV and his flunkies.  Now to say he would
prefer not to stand out is true but he has through actions of his own
just in a different way then other people.  

Two I think he underestimates Hermione he state that she is not in the
same league as Tom, James and Sirius.  She is well beyond any of the
current students at Hogwarts and I would say its save to say that she
has been a head of all the Hogwarts students in the past few years
sense her fifth year.  I don't how you could see anything but a
profoundly gifted person when you look at Hermione I don't see any
real difference between her and Lily except that Hermione seemed to
have come out of her shell a little sooner even if she retreats to it
from time to time.

As for the argument for Harry's poor grade, do I think he capable of
more?  Yes much more level of Hermione more.  Do I think that he
doesn't excel to avoid being in the spot light?  No not at all.  I  
do believe that Harry is not learning to his fullest potential but  I
think there are a few good reasons for this.  One his continuing
preoccupation with the life and death fight he is part of.  Two being
in an environment that he has control of his own actions the Dursleys
have never gave him freedom the Magic would has never given him the
freedoms he would like.  He feels he has responsablities that is sense
of duty won't let him avoid he academics are one of the few he can
control so of course they are among the first to suffer.  Three Ron he
can always be counted on to distract Harry when Harry's concentration
is at its weakest and little distraction can turn in to the rest the
free time for those two.  And Four Harry had a flawed view of his
required skills up to and including OotP I don't think it was till he
really started the DA and looking at things differently that he
understood the need to be a better well rounded student.  Until then 
DADA to him must of seemed the most worth while course of study he
didn't have the foresight to see the full value of his other classes.

On the topic of genius and innovation 

>How Harry can be called a genius when he has never invented a spell
>himself? Only Weasly twins show any talent for innovation among
>present Hogwarts students ( They did worked out how to use the map ,
>appart from inventing countless joke objects ).
>samajdar_parantap

I think this is a flawed statement so what if he hasn't invented a
spell Shakespeare, Einstein, Jung all these people are for the most
part considered to be genius' and yet not one of them have anything to
do with the other.  Now yes they all made innovations in the field  in
there own ways but that just it in there own ways.  To say that to
create or augment a spell is the only clear sign of genius very
limiting.  The poster goes on to discuss Harry fighting ability but
passes over the discussion of genius through out the rest of the post.
  But if innovation is the sign of genius then here is Harry's
innovation be it luck or skill or both Harry has survived more
encounter with death eaters and LV him self then you common Auror. 
With the DA he pass the knowledge to the students of how to protect
them selves with little more that O.W.L. level spells or more to say
the basic knowledge of a fifth year student because I doubt that
Hermione is the only one to expand there magical knowledge, all be it
for different reason I have no doubt that student learn more complex 
spells that are not part of the curriculum al'a the twins.  So Harry
made an innovation to fighting and tactics that was over looked or
more so not believe possible by most wizards that a wizard or witch
with little more than an O.W.L level education could put up a defence
against a larger number force of Dark Wizards.  He may or may not be
remembered for it but it was an innovation.

Finally Harry's magical power and abilities.  The larges argument come
from the mark but have we sense anything that was anything much more
that mental abilities.  The connection really hasn't shown much more
then the fact that it was effecting Harry's mind his ability to speak
to snakes the fact that he could see in to LV mind even the fact that
his scar burn and breaks open can be contributed to the mind  as the
body can be affected by the mind.  I believe that Harry's magical
power is all his own even if some of his abilities are not.  I think
as well that given time that yes Harry could be come more powerful
then the common witch or wizard but is currently held back by is poor
self confidence.