What *Do* You know? Dumblodore Context

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 163803

---  "Talisman" <talisman22457 at ...> wrote:
>
>...
> 
> 
> Talisman's scrying is interrupted by the sound of
> something galloping past.  
> 
> ...edited JKR's comments on Lily...
> 
> Talisman resumes:
> ...
> 
> In HBP, when DD summons Harry in for his first lesson,
> and announces: "Well, I have decided that it is time...
> for you to be given certain information," even Harry 
> is a bit miffed (Ch.10, US 197). 
> 
> "You said at the end of last term, you were going to
> tell me everything," said Harry.  "It was hard to keep
> a note of accusation from his voice.  "Sir," he added.
> (197)
> 
> And readers know all too well that this is exactly what
> DD said: "I am going to tell you everything." (OoP Ch.
> 37 US 834)
> 
> Everything.
> 
> (Of course what really DD puts on, at that time, is a 
> little presentation clearly meant to convince Harry of
> the legitimacy of the Prophecy.  ...
> 
> Sure it's swell that DD *now* assures us that it's all
> so much hot air (except for the fact that it's all 
> going to come true).  But, he intentionally took Harry
> for a temporary trot in the other direction, and that 
> is not insignificant.)
> 
> DD doesn't deny saying "I'm going to tell you 
> everything," but he's got another way out.
> 
> "And so I did, " [says the old stinker] placidly.  "I 
> told you everything I *know*"  (197, my emphasis).
> 
> Really, gentle readers, I would hate to describe the 
> reaming someone would get if they pulled such nonsense
> on me.
> 

bboyminn:

While I agree with your conclusions, especially your
final conclusions regarding Lily, I have to take minor
exception to your implied characterization of Dumbledore.

First, I must ask, is there really anyone in the world
who thought for one slight second that Dumbledore was 
indeed 'telling Harry /everything/'? I certainly didn't.
I've claimed over and over that Dumbledore didn't tell
Harry a fraction of what he knew. I still don't think 
Dumbledore has gotten the chance to literally tell
Harry /everything/. Even if we dial /everything/ back 
several hundred notches from literally everything, to 
just everything that Harry should and would want to 
know.

I'm as furious as anyone at Dumbledore's constant
withholding of information from people (especially us dear
loyal readers), though with him being a commander of 
sorts, I can understand it. But in the conversation at 
the end of OotP, Dumbledore told Harry /everything/ 
relative to the content of the Prophecy and its 
interpretation by various people, and how the various 
interpretations contributed to the death of Harry's 
parent and Harry receiving his scar and becoming 'The 
Boy Who Lived'. That is the context of the discussion,
and annoying as it might be, Dumbledore seems consistent
in the context of the discussion and his role as 
'commander'.

Now in the conversation you quoted, Dumbledore has
established a whole new context and a whole new set of
/everything/ that needs to be disclosed. But you can't
convince me, at least at this moment, that there are not
many many other contexts, each with their own unique set
of /everything/ to be told. I am certain that there was
plenty more /everything/ that Dumbledore could have 
told if only he had lived. 

Everything is NEVER everything, it is never more than
everything within a given context.

> Talisman continues:
> ...
> 
> This little _ex post facto_ qualification--which violates
> the Cooperative Principle of communication, not to 
> mention the Maxim of Completeness (where doing so, with 
> the expectation that the *listener* will not perceive 
> the violation as a part of the original communication, 
> is a primary marker of deception)--blatantly reveals 
> the epistemological fan dance that we can expect to 
> encounter, elsewhere. ...
> 

bboyminn:

OK...? Is that real, or did you just make up that CPoC 
and MoC?

Also, while true in general communcation, I seriously 
doubt that the CIA, NSA and the Military have the CPoC and
the MoC written into their by-laws. I highly suspect they
operate on exactly the opposite principles as would a man
like Dumbledore.

Still you make some very good points and I confess I share
your frustration, though I have to say, I saw it coming.
Like I said, I didn't believe for one second that in either
conversation nor both of them combined together did
Dumbledore even remotely tell Harry everything that Harry
needs to and really should know.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn