JKR's Dumbledore: Harry or Hermione (was:Re: It really annoys me ...

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 163890

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Did Dumbledore set up Harry to run the gauntlet in PS/SS?  If so 
> > (and unfortunately there's nothing in canon to contradict this    
> > senario)...<snip> 

> >>Pippin:
> "And then...well, you remember the events of your first year at 
> Hogwarts quite as clearly as I do. You rose magnificently to
> the challenge that faced you, and sooner -- much sooner--
> than I had anticipated, you found yourself face-to-face with
> Voldemort." --OOP ch37
> 
> Clearly Harry was not meant to go after the Stone as a first year.
> This is corroborated by Hermione's appalled reaction in Book
> One to the idea. 
> <snip>

> >>Alla:
> <snip> ...unfortunately IMO she provides rather strong canon
> support that DD indeed meant for Harry to do exactly that in PS/SS.
>
> That little speech of Harry's ( he wanted to give me a chance...)
> sounds to me as not what Harry would know or think, but a piece of
> exposition by JKR to explain to us what was happening.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
See, I've long agreed with Pippin: Harry was wrong in his "he wanted 
to give me a chance" speech; Hermione's horror at the idea expressed 
the actual truth of the situation.  But, unfortunately, JKR never 
made it clear which child had the correct understanding of Dumbledore.

IMO, I don't think Dumbledore's "much sooner than I anticipated" 
speech in OotP does enough to kill the "he meant me to face him" 
theory Harry put forth in PS/SS.  JKR should have had Dumbledore be 
more specific.  Either have Harry prompt him, "But I thought you 
*wanted* me to face him my first year!", or have Dumbledore be a tad 
more detailed "I never dreamed you'd make a try for the Stone 
yourself", but either way, make it clear.  That she doesn't is a 
failing on her part, IMO.

> >>Alla:
> I am sure somebody speculated about that or maybe I did as well. I
> don't think JKR was sure that other books in the series were
> necessarily going to be published and that is why in the fairy tale
> context of PS/SS that makes IMO total sense for DD to provide that
> little exercise for Harry, or to give him a chance, in order for   
> book to stand on its own, sort of.
> I mean I am guessing she had a character arc in mind where DD
> supposed omnisience dissappears book by book in front of Harry's   
> eyes and readers' eyes, but for the book 1 to be complete, DDD had 
> to be wise man, who is in charge, if that makes sense.

Betsy Hp:
It does.  And I can totally understand why she wouldn't fully explain 
Dumbledore's real position *within* PS/SS.  The controversy is there: 
Harry and Hermione represent each side.  That's all that's needed in 
that particular book.  Especially if it's the only one published.

However, she's had time since then.  As Pippin points out, she's had 
opportunity.  But JKR hasn't taken advantage of either.  Of course, 
there may be something in DH, which would be great and make this 
discussion moot.  I'm just worried that with Dumbledore dead the 
chance has been missed.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But... In the end it's something that doesn't bother most fans.
> > It's something that bugs me only when we try and get a firm      
> > handle on Dumbledore's character (what I *think* JKR meant to    
> > write versus the man actually on paper). I'm able to shrug it    
> > off, personally. Though it can annoy at times.

> >>Alla:
> Heee, it is annoying a plenty of times to me including
> Dumbledore's "second chances when he feels like it". IMO of course.
> Nice post, Betsy :)

Betsy Hp:
Thanks! <g>  I'm able to shrug it off because I refuse to accept the 
idea that JKR meant for Dumbledore to actually *want* Harry to go 
through the trap door in PS/SS.  It's frustrating, because there's so 
little canon support for that view (at least that I've found -- I'd 
love for Pippin to contradict me here <g>), so it doesn't stand up to 
reader analysis.  But if you begin with that particular Dumbledore, 
his character makes a lot more sense.  At least, IMO.

Betsy Hp