Do you agree? (Harry as Horcrux)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 163978

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote:
> Carol:
> There's no evidence for preparation. 

Mike: There's no evidence at all. We have not been told in canon how 
the spell works. Nobody knows. It's all conjecture.

> Carol:
> We're told that the spell *encases* the soul bit, which means that 
> the soul bit must be available *before* the spell is performed. 

Mike:
No it doesn't. Have you seen those sanders or table saws with dust 
collection bags. You turn them on and they start with the suction. 
But there isn't any dust to collect until you start sanding/cutting. 
If you knock over a plant while vacuuming, do you have to turn off 
then turn back on the vacuum before you suck up the spilled dirt?

Now canon. Did Marietta have to snitch on the DA to Umbridge *before* 
Hermione put the spell on the roster? No. She put the spell on the 
roster and it waited for something to activate it. So... you put the 
spell on your intended Horcrux object and yourself; the spell waits 
for the soul to be split at which time it sucks up the soul piece.

I just don't see how you can make any definitive statement about the 
mechanics of Horcrux creation with literally *no* canon evidence to 
back up any position. There is no canon that the Horcrux creation 
spell must come after the soul is split either. There is no canon 
that the Horcrux creation spell *can* come after the soul is split. 
Personally, I take the position that if the spell isn't cast before 
the murder, the soul piece does not seperate from the main and begins 
to repair itself. The chance is lost, it's too late to seperate it 
and encase it.

Is there canon for my position? No. Is there canon against my 
position? No. Is there canon for or against the spell-after-murder 
position? No. So I must look for other clues. I clued in on Slughorn 
telling Ton that "[t]he wizard *intent* upon creating a Horcrux would 
use the damage to his advantage:..." (HBP p.498, US, emphasis mine). 
Slughorn told me that the *intent* must be established, i.e. the 
spell must be cast *before* the soul is torn thereby establishing 
intent. Thats my clue. What's your clue that the spell *must* come 
after the murder?

> Carol:
> Nor do we see Tom Riddle bringing prepared Horcruxes with him 
> to a murder. <snip the Horcrux objects>

Mike:
Nor do we see Tom Riddle at any of those murders. And if Tom Riddle 
was intending to make his first Horcrux with his fathers murder and 
therefore had his diary in his pocket, you wouldn't *see* it, would 
you?


> Carol resumes:
> Anyway, if anyone can provide any evidence for a preparatory spell,
> I'd like to see it. 

Mike:
Likewise, if you have any evidence that the spell can come after the 
murder, I'd like to see that.

> Carol:
> He would have had to take some prepared object to Godric's 
> Hollow, and had he done so, it, not Harry or his open wound,
> would have become the Horcrux. 

Mike:
Unless, of course, the object, like the house, was destroyed by the 
rebounding AK. Also, Harry was *marked* by a spell that doesn't leave 
a mark. Harry deflected a spell that cannot be deflected. JKR said 
that things happened that night that have never happened before. 
Another clue for me to ask, what else happened there that never 
happened before?

> Carol:
> Nor did he cast any preparatory spell
> on Harry to give him back his own soul bit or he'd have known that
> Harry was a Horcrux and not repeatedly tried to kill him.

Mike:
Excuse me, but ... how do you know what happened that night? Did I 
miss a chapter somewhere? <yes Alla, I can write sarcasm ;-) >
If you were Voldemort, would you give up one of your Horcruxes to 
kill the "prophesy boy"? I think he would. Besides, the logical time 
for Voldemort to have discovered that Harry has one of Voldemort's 
soul bits was when he possessed him briefly at the MoM. And *nobody* 
has tried to kill Harry since, have they?

> Carol, wishing JKR would dispel the Harry!Horcrux theory on her 
> website

Mike, thinking that she doesn't dispel the theory because to JKR its 
fact.