Harry as Horcrux/De-Horcruxing the Diary

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 164028

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Annemehr" <annemehr@> wrote:
> >
> > Annemehr:
> > 
> > ...huge snip...
> > 
> > I suppose I may as well outline the reasons I do think
> > Harry('s scar) is a Horcrux, and why I agree that DD 
> > did it:
> > 
> > (1)That Harry has a bit of LV's soul within him 
> > somewhere is the only explanation we can infer from 
> > existing canon for how Harry has LV's inherent powers 
> > and a link to his thoughts and emotions.  Of course, 
> > JKR *may* have a little surprise in store for us in DH,
> > regarding some other reason for the link, but it would 
> > feel like authorial cheating to me.  I'll just content 
> > myself for now with what seems to be the best 
> > explanation -- it's a soul-bit.
> > 
> 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Let me give you the reason why I don't buy this particular
> explanation.
> 
> When Dumbledore is explaining Horcruxes to Harry, he gives
> Harry a warning, which I will greatly paraphrase. 
> 
> When he explains to Harry that Voldemort has transformed 
> and diminished himself by removing bits of his soul, he
> warns Harry that this has not diminished Voldemort's power
> in any way. While Voldemort may have greatly diminished
> his humanitry and conscience, removing those soul bits
> has not diminished Voldemort's magical power.
> 
> This implies to me that power does not follow soul; that
> they are separate entities. Based on that interpretation,
> I concluded that Harry receiving Voldemort's powers
> does not equal Harry receiving Voldemort's soul. Nor does
> Harry having Voldemort's powers equal Harry having 
> Voldemort soul (or at least a piece of it) 
 

Annemehr:
I disagree with your conclusion, firstly because of the power of 
possession which Vapor!Mort retained.  In the graveyard, he explained 
to his DEs that, while a vapor, he could not weild his other powers 
because he could not hold a wand.  And, acutally I would add he could 
not speak Parseltongue because he didn't have a tongue.  But Vapor!
Mort was nothing *but* soul -- albeit an incomplete one -- and he, as 
a mere bit of soul, retained and used the power of possession.  Then 
at his rebirth he could once again weild the ones that required a 
body -- i.e., they had remained latent with him during his stint as a 
mere bit of soul, until his reembodiment.  This tells me that a bit 
of soul can carry magical power.

If the bit of soul that lived in Albania all those years could 
contain power, what about the bits that went into the Hxes?  Indeed, 
in CoS we saw that the bit that went into the diary certainly did use 
Parseltongue and possession on Ginny, and weilded Harry's wand in the 
Chamber.

So I conclude that if Harry carries a bit of LV's soul, he'd have 
received LV's powers with it.

bboyminn:
> If the power follows the soul then certainly Voldemort's 
> powers would be diminished with each loss of soul, but 
> Dumbledore makes it clear that's not what is happening and
> that is enough evidence for me.

Annemehr:
I figure possession and being a Parselmouth are like toggle switches: 
either you can or you can't.  As far as how powerfully magic a soul 
bit is compared to the original undivided soul, I suppose JKR could 
have written it either way as she wished.  But a greatly weakened LV 
is no fun, so she had him retain his magical strength. 

A jkrowling.com FAQ answer of hers does suggest to me that the soul 
bit might be as powerful as the original:

--------------------------------------------------------------
In 'Chamber of Secrets', what would have happened if Ginny had died 
and Tom Riddle had escaped the diary?

I can't answer that fully until all seven books are finished, but it 
would have strengthened the present-day Voldemort considerably.
---------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like the Diary!Riddle would have had power of his own.

Oh, hey, I wonder if we *will* see a Hx soul bit escape and obtain a 
body for itself?


bboyminn: 
> Once again, I will add that Dumbledore is the fount of all
> knowledge and wisdom regarding Harry, his scar connection,
> the transferred powers, and of Horcruxes in general. If
> Dumbledore hasn't reach the conclusion, or at least 
> considered the possibility, that Harry is a Horcrux, then
> I don't see how we can.<snip>


But that fount is an annoyingly slow trickle!  For one thing, we know 
there's that wonderful (and no doubt highly useful) story of what 
happened to DD's wand hand that's still awaiting another time to be 
told.  I'm sure there's plenty more "everything" for DD to impart to 
Harry in the next book.

Annemehr,
also sure that, dead as he might be, Dumbledore is going to be a huge 
character in DH

P.S.  I *know* that making predictions based on what we already know 
is a dangerous game.  A friend recently reminded me of this little 
phrase from the September 29th, 2006 Diary entry from Jo's 
website: "Sitting at my desk trying to invent a word yesterday..."  
It seems it reminded her (JKR, I mean) of the search for the 
word "Horcrux."  Which means she's still been making up new stuff for 
DH.  So, if you are holding out for a non-Horcrux explanation for the 
scar phenomenon, I can't blame you.

What's a poor theorist to do? ;)