Question from a newbie: Taking memories out of your head?

[Cyril A Fernandes]

No: HPFGUIDX 164123

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
> >
> Carol responds:
> I agree that the memories have been "cut" rather than "copied" in 
this
> case (though Slughorn's may be different). I think the suggestion 
that
> zgirnius made up thread about some shadow of a memory remaining 
even
> when the detailed, objective memory is removed is also applicable.
> IOW, even if Snape couldn't remember the details of his humiliation
> because the memory is in the Pensieve (and he certainly didn't 
those
> details to rise to the surface of his mind when he was teaching 
Harry
> Occlumency), he would remember that the incident happened, just as
> Harry would have remembered that Cho had kissed him if he could 
have
> put that memory in a Pensieve to protect it from Snape. He would 
just
> be protecting the objective details, the image of what happened, 
from
> Snape's Legilimens spell. 
> 
> Snape probably doesn't have to worry about Harry using the 
Legilimens
> spell, which he hasn't practiced and which may be beyond his skill
> level, but he does have to worry, as we see later, about Harry 
using a
> Shield Charm (Protego), even an accidental one. When the 
(accidental)
> Protego sets up an invisible wall around Harry to protect him and 
his
> memories from Snape's intrusion, it deflects Snape's Legilimency 
spell
> back onto its caster, revealing random snippets of Snape's own
> memories--the shouting man and cowering woman, for example.
> 
> Just by teaching Harry Occlumency, Snape was risking the exposure 
of
> various memories, none of which he particularly wanted Harry to 
see,
> if Harry happened to use a Protego (intentionally or not). After 
all,
> he had told Harry to use any spell he could think of to protect
> himself, and Protego is the logical defensive spell to use under 
the
> circumstances. And while he would no doubt have preferred that 
Harry
> not see *any* of his memories, there were a few that he 
particularly
> wanted to protect. So I think that Snape protected himself against 
the
> deflection of his own powerful Legilimens spell by placing that
> humiliating memory and two others that were possibly even more
> important (the eavesdropping incident and the "tale of deepest
> remorse"?) into the Pensieve, which would store them temporarily 
until
> it was safe to put them back inside his head.
> 
> Although the primary use of the Pensieve is presumably to "sift"
> (sieve) various thoughts and memories and study them to see their
> connections or implications, the use to which DD puts it in GoF, it
> can also be used to temporarily store a memory that a wizard wants 
to
> revisit to see it objectively (as opposed to the subjective,
> emotion-tinged version that he would experience by simply 
remembering
> it as a Muggle or a wizard untrained in Legilimency would). Snape,
> being a Legilimens like DD, can remove memories from his own head 
just
> as DD can, though I doubt that he habitually studies them in a
> Pensieve. (He's more concerned with keeping them compartmentalized 
and
> inaccessible to Voldemort.) I think that he agreed to teach Harry
> Occlumency only if he could borrow DD's Pensieve to remove any
> memories that he didn't want Harry (or LV, through Harry) to see in
> case Harry succeeded in casting a Protego, and I think that DD 
agreed
> because the idea was imminently sensible. (Neither of them 
anticipated
> Harry's violating Snape's privacy by visiting the Pensieve.)
> 
> We saw only one of those memories, but I'm guessing that the other 
two
> were even more sensitive, whether Snape was protecting them from 
Harry
> or Voldemort or both. My guess is both. Snape's fury at Harry's
> intrusion into the Pensieve could be explained in part by what he
> might have seen if he had visited one of the other two memories
> instead of that one. And that might well be a reason why DD agreed
> that it was best to drop the Occlumency lessons. After all, DD
> generally tells Harry only as much of the truth as Harry needs to 
know.
> 
> Carol, hoping that this explanation works for you as it does for me
>


Cyril here:

In general I agree with the gist of Carol's post on the aspect of 
the secondary memories being the cause for someone to remember that 
he had a memory, which needs to be reinserted into their minds.

The one aspect that I have a concern with is why would Snape place 
that memory into the Pensieve (or three memories, using Carol's 
examples above), readymade for Harry to look at. He could easily 
have extracted the memories and placed them into vials or containers 
similar to what Slughorn did in HBP, and how DD actually stored 
memories of those he had tracked down. Why would Snape even need a 
Pensieve if he just wanted to store the memories, and not to look at 
them for some information or clues.

Looks like Snape had that (and maybe) other memories in the Pensieve 
because he was looking for something. I see no other reason for him 
to borrow DD's Pensieve.

Cyril, going to reread that chapter looking for reasons why Snape 
would want to be reviewing that particular memory (though none come 
in mind offhand)