The Irma/Eileen Theory & Snape's Return/Teaching timeline

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 164226

zgirnius;
> I find this to be suggested as well by Dummbledore's testimony in 
> GoF. How could Snape spy 'at great personal risk' if he 
> only 'returned' just in time to start teaching at Hogwarts? Who was 
> he spying on? If on the other hand Snape 'returned' at some point 
> before he started teaching, this comment could be in reference to
> his activities before he started teaching, spying from within the
> Death Eater camp, which makes more sense to me.

Jen: Good point.  There needs to be a period he was already working 
as a double-agent for it to be a 'great' risk, likely right around 
the time the Potters went into hiding since they were the reason he 
went to DD in the first place.  I've always been curious how long 
Sirius was SK and how long they were in hiding.

> zgirnius:
> This seems plausible to me. Minus Eileen, it is the story I've come 
> up with for myself from the clues we have in Dumbledore's 
> statements from HBP and GoF, Fudge statements in PoA, and Snape's 
> statements in HBP (Spinner's End). 

Jen: Eileen doesn't have to be included although I like the parallel 
with Draco's situation and how Snape's own experience might have 
influenced his decision to take the UV.  For someone like me who 
still finds the UV questionable, this would supply at least a partial 
motivation for why Snape risked his own and Dumbledore's life to help 
Draco rather than simply agreeing to help him and following through 
with his promise.  (I have mutiple working theories for the UV <g>).

zgirnius:
> Though, to make a correction, we have no indication Dumbledore
> knew 'officially' that Snape was a Death Eater. He might have 
> suspected it after Voldemort's actions tipped him off to the fact
> that Voldemort knew the prophecy. Though even then, it could just 
> indicate that Snape told the story to the wrong friends, friends
> canon suggests he had.

Jen:  Rather than saying 'Voldemort and Dumbledore both knew Snape 
was the DE who had turned the prophecy over to Voldemort' a better 
way to phrase it would be 'both knew Snape was the eavesdropper'.  
This would make Snape at least a concern in Dumbledore's mind for 
working at Hogwarts, whether he was certain of Snape's DE status or 
not.  And by the time Voldemort's actions tipped DD off it wouldn't 
have mattered if Snape delivered the prophecy himself or told 
friends, he wouldn't have been given a job without his story of 
remorse. 

zgirnius:
> Of course, once Snape approached Dumbledore, I presume he would 
> have made a clean breast of that, but Voldemort would (at this 
> point) not know that Snape had confessed to Dumbledore.

Jen: Voldemort knew that Dumbledore knew that Snape was the 
eavesdropper <g>.  That seems like enough in my mind for Voldemort to 
suspect Dumbledore would not jump at the chance to employ him.

I thought after HBP that Voldemort wanted Snape placed next to 
Dumbledore for the day when Voldemort would move against DD, that the 
actions in HBP were later than intended but always planned in some 
form.  Now when considering Snape was not much older than Harry, 
Draco, et. al., and that he was the eavesdropper who overheard the 
prophecy, he doesn't seem the most *likely* person to send to 
Hogwarts for a job anymore.


>Carol, who finds the theory interesting but not helpful to the 
>crucial Snape/Harry relationship or particularly compatible with
>Snape's motives as we've seen them depicted in the books.

Jen: Do you get tired of people responding to your signature lines? :)
They're always such a nice summary to launch a new discussion.  The 
Eileen Prince connection could be a separate issue from the 
Snape/Harry relationship and explain some murky issues in its own 
right.  Besides explaining why Snape started teaching at Hogwarts--as 
opposed to why he returned to Dumbledore--there's also the issue of 
Hagrid seeming to know more about Snape than he lets on.  He did go 
to school with Eileen and also worked on the grounds during the time 
she was there.  He's a much more observant person re: human 
relationships than McGongall and might have recognized Eileen in 
disguise. 

There are two other reasons looking outside the story:

1) JKR conceived a storyline for Eileen which placed her in Slytherin 
house at the time of Riddle and could foreshadow a role for her 
beyond being the reason Snape was in Slytherin and why he called 
himself the HBP.

2)  JKR formally introduced Snape's parents into a series rife with 
male characters who make pivotal decisions based on their 
relationships (or lack of) with parents:  Riddle, Sirius, Crouch Jr., 
Draco, Percy & Regulus off the top of my head.  Harry is on this list 
even though I think his truly pivotal moment is yet to occur.

In addition to expanding Snape's backstory, this twist could 
influence Harry, who would understand Snape's desire to save his mom 
just as he understood Draco's.

Jen