Dumbledore's death

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164318

"j_m_arff" wrote:
>
<snip>
> The question is: Is Dumbledore (sorry I'm afraid I'll have to learn
> those abbreviations) truly dead?
> There are a few points, that make his death suspicious, as for
> instance the fact, that he has been killed by Snape with the "Avada
> Kedavra", but rather than sinking to the floor, as other victims of
> the curse have been reported dying, Dumbledore is "Blasted into the
> air" and then falls over the railing to the ground.
<snip>
> I'm not fully convinced, as I believe, that JKR so far has let the
people in the books who have died rest in peace, and no one has
returned from the dead (well, Voldemort sort of, I suppose) and I can
see, where it is important for Harry's developement to stand on his
own two feet. However this idea has left the trace of a doubt within
me, and I also think, that Dumbledore could be of great help to Harry,
if he was operating under the public belief of his death. Nevertheless
I would like to hear, what you think of this, and if you can
contribute to draw a clearer picture. thank you!

Carol responds:
Other posters have already linked you to JKR's response to Salman
rushdie's question about Snape and Dumbledore faking DD's death. we
know for sure that, Phoenix or no Phoenix, he's dead and Harry is
(more or less) on his own. Of course, he still has Hermione and Ron,
and he can consult the Order for help about some things, and we're all
anticipating Pensieve visits and conversations with
Portrait!Dumbledore, but that's different from having Dumbledore
himself to guide and teach him. (DD's death, of course, also provides
a reason for Harry not to attend Hogwarts for his seventh year, though
if they survive, I rather expect HRH to return a year late to finish
their education). one thing I'm certain of: DD won't return as a
ghost. He's made it clear that he views death as "the next great
adventure" and, as NHN (Nearly Headless Nick) says of Sirius Black, 
"he will have gone on."

However, you're quite right that the Avada Kedavra seems abnormal,
different from the ones that killed Cedric and Frank Bryce and even
the spider in GoF. Usually there's a blinding flash. sometimes there's
a rushing noise. The other victims, including the Riddles, died with
their eyes open. Dumbledore's are closed; he looks like he's asleep.
(the resemblance to the sleeping portrait is intentional, I think.
Dumbledore died peacefully, without fear or anger or resentment,
suggesting that Snape did *not* betray him and that "Severus, please"
did not mean what Harry thinks it means. I don't think anyone on this
list, even the anti-Snape, anti-Dumbledore faction, thinks that DD
would plead to be spared. Those few who think that DD pleaded with
Snape not to kill him seem to think that he was afraid for Snape's
soul, or that somehow Snape could have saved Dumbledore and that Harry
and Draco could have gotten safely off the tower without Snape's
killing Dumbledore.)

At any rate, as you say, most AKs don't blast the victim into the air.
The victim simply sees a blinding flash and keels over backwards, dead
before he hits the ground. Pippin, who believes that it wasn't the AK
that killed Dumbledore, points out that dead bodies don't bleed. (Clue
or Flint? Maybe JKR doesn't know that.) If Pippin si right, Dumbledore
was alive when he went over the battlements. I've pointed out numerous
times that sending Dumbledore over the battlements prevented Fenrir
Greyback from having him for "afters" and enabled Snape to get the DEs
off the tower before Harry (whom he surely knew was there in his
Invisibility Cloak because of the second broom) rushed off to fight
them. Also, DD seems to float for a moment "like a ragdoll,"
suggesting that Snape used some sort of Hover Charm or some other
nonverbal charm to slow his fall. (We know that Snape is gifted at
nonverbal spells, so he could certainly have used something in
addition to the AK before he lowered his wand.)

It's also possible that the AK was fake, covered by some other spell
that shoots out a "jet" of green light (an Impedimenta?) and sent
Dumbledore over the wall, allowing Dumbledore to die naturally from
the poison, perhaps some time after he hit the ground. (We don't know
what color an Impedimenta is; Tonks in OoP was hit by a jet of green
light that didn't kill her; you have to *mean* the Unforgiveable
Curses, according to Bellatrix, so it would be theoretically possible
to cast a fake AK, especially if you're as clever and skilled as
Snape.) There's also the theory that the AK, instead of killing Snape,
"unstoppered" DD's death, which Snape had "stoppered" when he saved
Dumbledore from the ring Horcrux.

I may be overlooking some theories (polyjuiced Dumbledore and the
Draught of Living Death and a few others), but my point is simply that
I don't think JKR somehow forgot about the AK that killed Cedric and
carelessly made this one noticeably different. I think that the
differences (like Snape's behavior toward Harry in the following
chapter, the sleeping portrait, the unfinished "Severus, please--,"
and Snape's expression of hatred and revulsion, so similar to Harry's
feeling of self-hatred and repulsion in the cave) are clues, meant to
be noticed and puzzled over. We are meant to question the seemingly
straightforward reading (actually colored throughout by Harry's
reactions and interpretations) and wonder what was going on between
Dumbledore and Snape, whether Snape is really a cold-blooded murderer
and traitor who saved his own skin at the expense of his soul or
whether something else, invisible to Harry, is going on. We know that
the "something else" is not that Dumbledore is really alive, but it
could be that Snape, in killing Dumbledore, chose to do what was right
rather than what was easy (choosing to follow DD's wishes rather than
his own), or it could be that something other than the AK (which may
have been fake or unmeant) killed Dumbledore.

As for the abbreviations, here's a starter list: AK = Avada Kedavra,
DD = Dumbledore, LV = Lord Voldemort, DDM! (usually applied to Snape)
means "Dumbledore's Man, OFH! = "out for himself," ESE! = Ever So Evil
(secretly loyal to Voldemort). The book titles are also abbreviated,
usually SS/PS (covering the American and British titles of the first
book--I suppose it ought to be PS/SS--CoS, PoA, GoF, OoP, HBP, and
DH). Somewhere on this site, either in the Files or the Database or
possibly on the homepage, is a list of abbreviations commonly used in
this group. I strongly recommend exploring the whole site at your
leisure and certainly using the (improved!) search engine to find
posts on topics that you're interested in to get some idea about what
has already been said.

Carol, recommending a site search using "Dumbledore," "Snape," "dead,"
"tower," "AK," and similar search terms (the more, the better; no
quotes or commas)