Harry Potter, REALLY for Grown-Ups (well, PG-13 anyway)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 164404

---  "horridporrid03" <horridporrid03 at ...> wrote:
>
> > >>Bart:
> > Hogwarts has students from 10-17. Doesn't ANYBODY 
> > have sex? ...
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Honestly, I think part of it is because these are 
> childrens books in  the end. ...

bboyminn:

While I understand that the above statement is a 
generalization and not intended to full define the 
universe, I will point out that these are not necessarily
'Childrens Books'. They are books aimed at a 'general'
audience, which is pretty close to the same in terms of
limiting the more intimate nature of the content. 


> ...
> I do think it's... I don't know if odd is the right 
> word, but it does lessen the realism of the Potterverse
> for me.  How many years was it  before Ron discovered 
> boys couldn't enter the girls' dorms?  ...
> 
> ...
> 
> I will say, also, that it leaves Harry's sexuality 
> somewhat in question for me, or at least a bit 
> ambiguous.  I mean, I know JKR means for Harry to be 
> quite straight.  ...  Harry doesn't develop any sort 
> of crush on any older girls.  Veelas do nothing for 
> him.  
> 
> Instead it's Ron who takes very quick notice of Madam 
> Rosmerta, who falls all over Fluer, and who is very 
> willing to make out with Lavander ...
> 
> ...
>
> But aside from all that, even though we have Harry 
> doing something with Ginny down by the lake, he still
> doesn't seem all that sexually aware, IMO.
> 

bboyminn:

I agree, from one perspective we have very proper
Victorian boys and girls who are probably aware of sex
in the context of marriage, but probably much more 
unaware of sex in the context of 'recreation'. 

Other's have pointed out that Hogwarts and the wizard
world seem very old fashioned, and I think that is 
reflected the the students attitude toward proper
behavior.


Further on the subject of Harry, I would not expect Harry
to be very socially or sexually forward. He grew up in a
very socially isolated environment. He has every reason
to be withdrawn and restrained in his relationship. Note
that he only has a very few close friends, to all others
he is friendly but distant. That seem prefectly consistent
with Harry's up-bringing and the personality that has
resulted from the up-bringing.

Ron on the other hand comes from a family that while
tightly disiplined, also encourages confidence in its
kids. Molly may rant and rave, but Fred and George 
manage to get their little 'digs' in. I grew up in a
large family and I know that you either make your voice
heard or you get lost in the crowd. Also, having older
brothers to pave the way, and lay out some structure
for behavior with the opposite sex has its advantages.
Ron has grown up confident because he has confident
brothers to model how life should work for him.

Though I will say that having those older brothers, 
while confidence building, is also a bit inhibiting. 
They are always far ahead of him in relationships and
achievements. That puts a lot of pressure on Ron to 
live up to their reputations. Something he is not
certain that he can do.

Harry, on the other hand, has the worst model for a
functionally confident life, and the best model for
a completely disfunctional life. It's no wonder he is
a bit restrained.

> > >>Bart:
> > ... Yet, he has a woman who has the entire older 
> > male student group hot under the,  ummm, we'll call
> > it the collar, ... Don't tell me that Draco has 
> > become a gentleman!
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> ... Also, Draco has a girlfriend. One he's possibly 
> been dating since Fourth year.
> 
> Actually, given the physical comfort the Slytherins 
> seemed to have with each other in their glorious train
> scene, I suspect they're a bit more sexually aware then
> their Gryffindor counterparts.  
>
> Draco was quite comfortable putting his head in Pansy's 
> lap ...  And they were all comfortable talking about 
> the physical attractiveness of their fellow classmates.
> 
> I don't know if JKR meant for it to come across this 
> way, but it seems like the Gryffindors are the prudish 
> house and the Slytherins the  sensual house. It 
> wouldn't surprise me if dirty pictures have made the 
> rounds in the dungeons and wizarding versions of spin
> the bottle been played.
> 
> But yeah, we're not going to hear about it. <g>
> 
> Betsy Hp
>

bboyminn:

Draco is another example of someone who, while he grew
up as an only child, has had the confidence that comes
from a position of social rank and priviledge. Draco
doesn't question his desirability. He knows that even
if he was as ugly as a post, girls (and boys) would
desire his company because it brings them close to
power, and even opens the door to them sharing, perhaps
even controlling, that power. 

Draco has an easy confidence that Harry, give his
situation, could never have. Draco is someone who can
go out into the world and companions will seek him out.
He never doubts the sincerity of those companions 
because he just assumes the are all money grubbing
and power hungry. His only caution is to make sure that
HE is more money grubbing, power hungry, and 
manipulative than they are.

I also agree that Draco despite his confidence, shows 
a great deal of restraint. He can't just marry the 
first pretty skirt that catches his eye. He needs to
consider things like rank, wealth, and breeding. He
needs to give consideration to how any romantic
entanglements will affect his social status.

Harry on the other hand, seems, as you point out, to
be oblivious to the girls around him, and rightly so.
Since he is the famous 'Boy Who Lived', he can't trust
anyone to like him for him rather than his status. Just
the opposite of Draco, who assumes that everyone likes
him because of his status. The difference is, Harry
doesn't like that and doesn't know how to handle it. 
Draco, does like it, or at least, readily accepts it
and very much does know how to play that game.

So, it is no small wonder that Harry finally falls for
a girl that is part of his safe inner circle. He doesn't
have to wonder about Ginny, she is already like family
to him, and he can completely trust her motives. She is
someone who is /safe/ to love. 

As to Slytherin vs Gryffindors in the arena of romance,
I think certainly Slytherins in general have an easy
confidence and comfort in this area. They assume that
they are desirable, and that anyone else who can't see
that is obviously wrong. 

Gryffindors on the other hand take a far more noble and
restrained approach; gentlemen to the core.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn