The importance of titles in HP

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 171069

> Deborah:

> Has anyone thought of the "royal" titles that occur throughout 
the Harry Potter books?  We have seen knights, ladies, a friar, 
a baron, a prince, a lord, and a king title attributed to 
different characters.  Does anyone think this could play 
out in some way in HBP?

Goddlefrood:

Yes, as it happens, I have. There's little in them. They are 
*not* royal titles at all, I'll come to the symbolism of Ron 
Weasley momentarily. Surely you mean DH though, HBP came out 
some time ago ;-).

I'm taking part of this from comments I made in response to 
an essay at hp_essays some time ago but is largely written off 
the bat. That had led to a revision of her views relative to 
the Wizengamot, but is also relevant to argue the counter to 
those theories that posit that there is something akin to the 
real world of the benighted isles with all its various titles 
going on within the wizarding world. There is not as far as I 
am concerned.

As it stands in canon, and from other sources that are 
considered such, there is no indication of any kind of 
wizarding king, aristocracy or nobility, or even any 
landed gentry. I am aware that many theorise that such 
things, or certainly something similar, may have existed 
at points during the existence of the WW. These appear 
largely to be based on the titles referred to by Deborah 
above. All a little thin from my viewpoint, especially 
when the comprehension that I glean from the extrapolations 
in respect of such titles is not similar to other's understanding 
of these things, and, yes, I'm referring to mine, but also 
many and varied others I would hope. I do acknowledge that 
we have been shown that some wizards and witches are more 
powerful in a political sense than others in the HP universe.

The title "sir" can be bestowed on anyone for more or less any 
reason and at any time, and this more particularly occurred 
around the time of the Tudors and their predecessors. The 
immediate predecessor to the Tudors was Henry VII. That was 
when Nearly Headless Nick walked amongst the mortal.

It may be, for instance, that Sir Nicholas (hereafter NHN) 
merely offered his horse to someone in a position to elevate 
him to a knighthood, which was not limited only to the king 
of the day, but also lay in the power of other powerful barons 
and notables. Such a bestowal could have been hereditary or 
more probably only for his lifetime (I base that only on the 
instinct I have for NHN). This also applies equally to others 
in the nooks with the title "Sir". That there are no recent 
sirs in canon, other than the teachers when being addressed by 
their students, strongly suggests that no new elevations among 
wizards has occurred for some centuries.

It is not unreasonable to conclude that during NHN's life time 
there was at least some contact between wizards and witches and 
Muggles, otherwise why would it be necessary to later have a 
Statute of Secrecy?

The Grey Lady is a well known moniker amongst ghost stories from 
the blighted isles. There are several grey ladies, but it is *not* 
a lady as in the title but just a reference to those ghosts being 
female. One such story comes from the west country of England where 
I spent many of my formative years. There was a house, the name of 
which now escapes me, set in some beautiful parkland whose former 
owner had gone off to fight in a war. His wife looked out from 
her window constantly expecting his return once his time for return 
had passed. He never returned but that Grey Lady still looks out 
from her window, so the story goes. I never did see her but many 
claim to have done so.

Baron is a title, but it is quite low down the pecking order of 
aristocratic titles, just above a baronet in fact. This depends 
on context too because at one time baron was the term for the local 
major landowner who was high up in the feeding chain during feudal 
times and often had his own Court known as a Court Baron. If the 
Bloody Baron is placed in time based on his attire then he would 
belong around the 15th or 16th century. By that time a baron was 
a minor aristocrat. Again this does not mean that it was a 
wizarding title, but rather one that had been obtained or maybe 
inherited during the Bloody Baron's lifetime. It may also have 
only been a self bestowed nickname like Lord Voldemort.

I am Lord Voldemort = Tom Marvolo Riddle, surely we're all here 
aware of that? It was self bestowed as was Snape's Half-Blood 
Prince. In Snape's case it was his mother's surname and not in 
any way linked to the royal title Prince.

The interim conclusion is that there's nothing in these titles 
because the only ones worth even considering, being Sir and Baron 
are quite clearly titles obtained before seclusion and no modern 
wizards other than one egomaniac styling himself Lord has a title.

The reference to king for Ron is little more than a common usage 
in respect of sporting heroes. Elvis Presley would know what I 
mean even though he was no sportsman.

For what value it may have to anyone there is my view. Nothing in 
them, purely a little amusement on JKR's part probably.

Goddlefrood