Harry's scar, love, and the death of Voldemort

[karen]

No: HPFGUIDX 171556

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Carol earlier:
> >  In any case, the problem with the whole Harry!Horcrux theory  
(any
> version) is that it's circular. If Harry is a Horcrux, he must be
> destroyed like the other Horcruxes, but if he dies (or is
> soul-sucked), how can he, the Chosen One, the only "one with the 
power
> to destroy the Dark Lord," kill or destroy Voldemort after the last 
> Horcrux (himself) is destroyed? OTOH, if Harry!Horcrux isn't 
> destroyed, he could "kill" Voldie but Voldie wouldn't die because 
his
> main soul (what's left of it) would still be "anchored" to the earth
> by Harry!Horcrux.
> > 
> > I can see him *thinking* that the last soul bit somehow found its
> way into his scar and that he has to die or be destroyed, but if he
> does think that, Hermione or Snape (or someone) will [IMO] explain
> that he isn't a Horcrux and doesn't need to die. Also, if Harry is
> indeed the Chosen One, Harry and only Harry can destroy [Voldemort],
> so something other than an AK (which any powerful and motivated 
wizard
> can cast) is needed to destroy him [LV]. What powers does Voldie 
have
> that no one else has? Parseltongue and possession. It seems to me
> likely that Harry acquired both of those powers at Godric's Hollow.
> > 
> Kamil responded:
> > I agree it's circular, but I think there are ways out. If, as for
> example, Harry houses the last of the Horcruxes (but Voldemort 
doesn't
> know they are down to the last one) and then Harry drags Voldemort
> though the Veil with him then Harry will have killed the last of the
> Horcrux pieces (with his own death) and will have destroyed 
Voldemort
> at the same time. Or shortly afterwards, as I'm sure they'll fight 
it
> out behind the Veil.
> <snip>
> > 
> > Possession and/or Parseltongue can't be the "power he knows not", 
as
> Voldemort knows both of those powers quite well indeed. But a
> willingness to face death to ensure triumph for others could easily 
be
> the power the Dark Lord knows not because never in a million years
> would Voldemort be willing to sacrifice himself just to kill Harry, 
so
> he will not be able to imagine that Harry, or anyone, would be 
willing
> to do the reverse.
> 
> Carol again:
> 
> I can see that my second paragraph (even with the ambiguous pronouns
> clarified) wasn't very clear. There's a jump from why I think Harry
> isn't a Horcrux (and doesn't have to die) to my alternative theory
> relating to the powers he possesses that will help him defeat
> Voldemort (without the circularity involved in being himself one of
> the objects he has to destroy to kill or otherwise permanently
> vanquish Voldemort).
> 
> I know, of course, that possession isn't and can't be "the power 
that
> the Dark Lord knows not." That, of course, is Love. But Harry is
> hardly the only person in the WW who has the capacity to love or the
> capacity for Agape Love or botherly love or sacrificial love or
> whatever sort of love is behind the locked door in the MoM. 
Certainly,
> he'll have to acquire that capacity (by, IMO, forgiving Snape), but
> that alone is not sufficient to distinguish him from everyone else 
in
> the Potterverse. Voldemort marked Harry "as his equal," and he
> certainly didn't do so by giving him the power of Love. That power, 
in
> so far as he has it without any conscious realization or effort on 
his
> own part, results from his mother's sacrifice and relates, so far, 
to
> Harry's protection from LV (it saved him from the AK and from being
> possessed by LV in the MoM). The power of Love is intolerable to LV;
> he can't bear being in close contact with it any more than Quirrell
> could bear the touch of Harry's hands in SS/PS.
> 
> But how can Harry use the power of Love offensively, as a weapon
> against LV? Not, heaven forfend, by loving him. Not by forgiving 
him,
> as unlike the very human Snape, the barely human Voldemort would 
only
> sneer at his folly. Something else is needed, IMO, beyond compassion
> for the WW and for Voldemort's victims (including even Snape), 
beyond
> a willingness to sacrifice himself as Lily did without defeating
> Voldemort. According to Dumbledore, Voldemort unwillingly (and no
> doubt unwittingly) passed some of his powers (*not* Love, which is
> antithetical to LV) to Harry. So far, we've seen only one of those
> powers, Parseltongue, which may help in defeating Nagini but seems
> unlikely to be of much use against Voldie himself. (I'm not counting
> the scar connection as a "power," primarily because I think that
> Harry's ability to enter LV's mind, a kind of unconscious 
Legilimency,
> has been blocked by LV's Occlumency.) That leaves the one power that
> remained to LV when he lost his powers at Godric's Hollow, 
possession.
> He can't use it against Harry, but suppose that Harry could use it
> against him? Suppose Harry, standing with Voldie on the dais of the
> Veil in the Death Room, could enter Voldemort's mind and fill it 
with
> the burning power of Love so that the pain of it tormented him as 
the
> Silmaril burned Maedhros' hand and he leaps through the Veil to rid
> himself of the pain.
> 
> That's my theory of what will happen. It would make Sirius Black's
> death significant not only by introducing us to the Veil but when
> Black offers Harry a chance to "take my body back"--Sirius's soul
> would stay behind the Veil, as would Voldemort's because they would
> both be dead. But Harry, whose body would lie outside the Veil, 
would
> be a superfluous soul who is not really dead and could "borrow" 
Sirius
> Black's (dead) body to reenter the WW. (Christ figure alert: We'd 
have
> a symbolic death and resurrection, foreshadowed by all the 
underground
> passages Harry has entered and emerged from in all the other books.
> And no, that would not make him Christ or an allegory of Christ. It
> would only be a symbol of his Christlike willingness to sacrifice
> himself for others.)
> 
> It's just an idea that I prefer to Harry!Horcrux. I think that Harry
> acquired some of Voldie's *powers* rather than part of his soul at
> Godric's Hollow. I'm trying to figure out what makes Harry, a much
> less loving figure than, say, Luna, "the one with the power to
> vanquish the Dark Lord," and I'm also trying to bring in "mark him 
as
> his equal" and tie it in with what DD has said about DD giving Harry
> powers. Harry protests that he doesn't have the power of possession,
> but Harry, as we know, has been wrong before.
> 
> Carol, not equating possession with demonic possession, just 
thinking
> of it as the power to invade someone else's mind on a grand scale, 
in
> this case used as a weapon of last resort to defeat evil

Karen: I don't think Harry will ever love LV- that would be crazy but 
perhaps his willingness to destroy the horcrux inside of him out of 
love for his friends will be what kills LV.  Seeing his intense love 
of others.  10 more days!
>