Prince/Pince Re: Reason Dumbledore trusted Snape

[va32h]

No: HPFGUIDX 171747

houyhnhnm:
 
We learn that he has a memory of a dark-haired woman 
cowering before a hook-nosed man.  There's no description 
of the woman's phiz.  We don't even know who the people 
are.  That they are Snape's mother and father is a 
logical assumption, but it is far from proven.

va32h:

We do get a description of Eileen when Hermione shows Harry her photo 
from the back issues of the Daily Prophet. It doesn't resemble the 
descriptions we've had of Irma Pince. I didn't say the man was 
Snape's father, but he is described as having a hook nose, just as 
Snape is always described as having a hook nose, and since that is 
the feature that JKR makes a point of having Harry describe, the 
extremely logical inference is that the man is a male relative of 
Snape's.  

houyhnhm:
I'm not betting my house on Irma Pince being Eileen 
Prince, but I do think there are a few more possible 
clues than the anagram.  (Of course, the trouble with 
Rowling is that there is no knowing what is a clue, 
what is a red herring, and what is just a bit of 
inattentivenesss on her part until after the mystery 
is solved.)  There is the fact that the Snape boggart 
turned into an old woman with a vulture on her hat 
coupled with the vulture imagery associated with Madam 
Pince.  

va32h:
The boggart was Neville's boggart, not Snape's, and it did not turn 
into a old woman wearing a vulture-topped hat, Neville's boggart 
*was* Snape. Neville defeated the boggart by imagining Snape wearing 
his grandmother's clothes, which included the vulture hat. The 
boggart also prominently carried a handbag - so what does that 
symbolise? That Snape's father is the luggage handler on the 
Hogwart's Express?

The vulture represents something significant to Neville - not to 
Snape.


houyhnhm
There is the parallel description of Snape's 
> face and Madam Pince's face each illuminated by a 
> lantern/lamp. There is the similarity of their 
> personalities.  There is the fact that Madam Pince 
> is the only one veiled at DD's funeral (suggesting 
> that she has a particular reason for grief she must 
> hide from others--That's if it doesn't turn out to 
> be Snape himself behind the veil <g>) Most of all 
> there are the books in Snape's house.  That's what 
> really sold me on the theory.  I'm not willing to 
> go so far as to stake my reputation on it, but I 
> certainly wouldn't be surprised if Madam Pince turns 
> out to be Snape's mother.

va32h:

Hold the phone there. Snape likes books, Pince is the librarian, so 
that makes Snape her son? Dumbledore likes books too, he's has lots 
of them in his office. Hermione also likes books. Are they secretly 
related to Madam Pince also? Arthur Weasley collects Muggle items, 
but that doesn't make him related to Muggles. 

Many characaters have similar personalities. Ginny is a lot like 
Lily. I'm pretty sure JKR isn't going for a incest subplot so I feel 
confident saying that they are not related. Hermione often reminds 
Harry of Molly Weasley but again - not related. 

As for the veil, why would Irma's particular reason for grief require 
hiding? If anything, it would be perfectly safe to openly cry at 
Dumbledore's funeral, when you have a perfectly plausible reason *to* 
cry - even if you were only crying because it meant that your secret 
identity might soon be revealed. Some people have suggested that Irma 
wears the veil so no one will identify her at the funeral, but if she 
looks that much like her "old" self, why didn't Harry recognize her 
in the Prophet picture, and why don't the older staff members 
recognize her as their former classmate or student? 

I just don't get why it's a leap of faith to presume that the adult 
male who looks like Snape and is yelling at Snape in Snape's memory 
is a relative of Snape's, but the fact that Pince wears a veil to a 
funeral is clearly proof that she is Snape's mother, cleverly hidden 
by Dumbledore for the last 16 years. 

But the larger issue, and the point of my previous post -- is this 
the way that JKR gives her clues and hints? No, it isn't.

Again, look at the clues for Aberforth Dumbledore. Look how they 
logically connect. No other character is referenced as having an 
affinity for goats, so when we learn that the Hog's Head smells of 
goats there is no other character to connect that to (unlike the 
vulture, who is connected to Neville's grandmother and Irma Pince).

I doesn't matter whether I like the idea of Pince being Prince - it 
just doesn't jibe with JKR's previously known methods of revealing 
clues, so it doesn't pass muster with me. 

va32h