My last-minute predictions and hopes

[esmith222002]

No: HPFGUIDX 172153

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Having just read my own response to Miss Vassy, I realize that I'm
> currently incapable of composing a coherent counterargument. (My
> apologies to anyone who was confused by that post!) 
> 
> So instead, I'm just going to list what I think happened and/or will
> happen, just to have a record of what I believe in case I'm right on
> even one point. I'm not supplying canonical evidence, just pure
> opinion on all counts.
> 
> Godric's Hollow and Horcruxes:
> No one was present with Voldemort except Wormtail watching the 
action
> in rat form (which explains why James didn't see him and how he 
could
> return Voldemort's wand. Voldemort's "Stand aside, silly girl" had
> nothing to do with Snape and everything to do with his desire to
> murder Harry and only Harry. He did not have an object with him that
> he intended to make into a Horcrux; the soul bit from murdering 
Harry
> would have been reserved for the Sword of Gryffindor, which he
> intended to steal after having murdered Harry and becoming, in his 
own
> mind, invincible. DD would be killed after the sword was made into a
> Horcrux. His soul bit, however significant, would have been
> superfluous as LV would have his quota of six Horcruxes (with the
> seventh bit in himself as the main soul anchored by the soul bits).
>
Brothergib now:
Agreed. I was always interested by DD questioning LV's intentions in 
asking for a job (Lord Voldemort's Request, HBP) that he would not 
receive. I am pretty sure that it was to confirm that DD possessed 
Gryffindor's sword and it was now on display in his office. 

Carol again:
> Neither Harry nor his scar is a Horcrux. Voldemort wanted him dead 
and
> would have used the soul bit to create a final Horcrux, but he 
didn't
> have the object yet and the spell was never cast. Harry has some of
> Voldemort's powers in his scar (which was created by the AK bursting
> outward thanks to Lily's accidental Love magic) but not a soul bit.
> (One of those powers is probably possession, which Harry may 
discover
> and use against LV in DH.) Nagini is a Horcrux and will be the last 
to
> be destroyed (with the Sword of Gryffindor) before the final
> confrontation with Voldemort.

Brothergib again:
I agree that Harry is not a Horcrux. It seems reasonable that as LV 
was stripped of his body, Harry would absorb some of his power. I 
think part of his strength in dealing with the Dark Arts also came 
from LV. Must admit that I have never understood why Harry was so 
ordinary with two such phenomenal parents. I don't agree that Nagini 
is a Horcrux - possible that he is a magical incarnation of LV's 
patronus. If LV had wanted to make the Sword of Gryffindor a Horcrux 
before, I don't think anything would have changed this! In fact I can 
see LV entering Hogwarts while Harry is out attempting to find 
Horcruxes. He will then inform Harry that his friends (Neville, 
Luna?) are held ransom until Harry returns. The intention is to make 
the sword a Horcrux with Harry's death.

Carol again:
> 
> Snape (who is DDM!) was not present at Godric's Hollow because he 
was
> at Hogwarts. He rushed to inform DD that his Dark Mark was fading 
just
> at the point when Dumbledore, alerted to the Potters' danger by the
> broken Fidelius Charm (he remembered where the Potters were hiding)
> realized with the aid of the silver instruments in his office that
> they were dead. DD sent Snape to tell Hagrid to hurry to Godric's
> Hollow (or help him get there using side-along Apparition) and then
> Snape returned to DD to help him prepare the blood protection and
> possibly some other protective charm or potion that we'll learn 
about
> later. We'll find out about all this through Hagrid or a Pensieve
> memory in relation to the Missing 24 hours.) The Fidelius Charm was
> broken when Peter broke faith with the Potters and betrayed their
> hiding place to the Dark wizard they were hiding from.

Brothergib again:
This also makes sense to me. However, JKR has stated that the whole 
series hinges on the events at GH. If this is the case, it suggests 
that we do not know, as yet, exactly what happened at GH. I think we 
have had the argument before about the Fidelius charm. As secret 
keeper, Wormtail had the right to tell LV, so the secret should have 
remained intact. As a result, it might have proved difficult to find 
Harry in the rubble! Hagrid also trusts Snape implicitly, and it 
could be due to his actions at this time.

Carol again:
> 
> Dumbledore and Snape:
> Dumbledore, having defeated Grindelwald by destroying his Horcrux in
> 1945, suspected long before CoS that Riddle/Voldemort was making
> Horcruxes. Riddle/Voldemort's changed appearance during the DADA
> interview confirmed this opinion, as did the murder of Hepzibah 
Smith
> and the theft of the locket and cup. DD had begun collecting 
memories
> related to his murders before the death of Morfin Gaunt. The theft 
of
> the ring in connection with the cup/locket theft led him to believe
> that all three had been made into Horcruxes. The action of the diary
> and its destruction confirmed the multiple-Horcrux theory but DD 
still
> did not know how many Horcruxes there were, which is why he wanted
> Slughorn's memory. (BTW, I don't think Tom Riddle knew how to 
create a
> Horcrux at that point. The diary, though "written" with the memories
> embedded in it to prove that he was the Heir of Slytherin, was not 
yet
> a Horcrux.)

Brothergib again:
Agreed. Did Grindelwald communicate with Riddle? Is this how Riddle 
first learnt of Horcruxes?

Carol again:
> 
> Dumbledore has a true "ironclad" reason to trust Snape (not an
> Unbreakable Vow, which DD would never perform) and has trusted him
> with more information than any other Order member or colleague (he
> wasn't a member of the first Order; he worked for DD along). He 
either
> knew or suspected the existence of LV's Horcruxes from GH forward 
and
> he knew when he "stoppered" the ring Horcrux curse that the ring 
was a
> Horcrux. I predict that he'll help Harry find and destroy at least 
one
> Horcrux (though Harry may not know that it's him). He has been 
working
> since SS/PS to protect Harry and killed DD on DD's orders or at his
> request. (See my multitudinous earlier posts on this topic.)#

Brothergib again:
Agreed again. I'm sure it is a link between Snape and Lily. I'm sure 
he is 'that awful boy' and that Petunia's role in book 7 is to reveal 
to Harry that Lily and Snape had a connection (a converstion brought 
about by the Dursleys disparaging remarks about DD and Harry 
commenting that Snape has killed him). DD trusted Snape more than 
anyone because he knew that Snape could block his thoughts from LV. 
Still not entirely sure whether Snape did join DD before or after 
LV's defeat. I don't think we will see Snape much in this book. He 
will be behind the scenes destroying Horcruxes. His role was to gain 
LV's trust, implant the seed that the Order knew about the Horcruxes, 
and then volunteer to check whether the Horcruxes are intact.

Carol again:
> 
> Dumbledore knew that he was dying as a result of the Ring Horcurx
> curse, which could only be slowed, not cured. He planned to give 
Snape
> the DADA post even before Snape told him about the UV (all three
> provisions) for a variety of reasons that I've already specified. 
(He
> intended for Slughorn to take Snape's place as both Potions Master
> and, after the DADA curse struck, HoH of Slytherin.) The argument in
> the forest involved Snape's willingness to kill DD if the
> circumstances they were both working to prevent fell into 
place. "You
> take too much for granted, Dumbledore" means that DD thought they
> could prevent DEs from getting into Hogwarts to back up Draco or
> something of that sort. Snape didn't want to kill DD; DD said that 
he
> had promised and must go through with it if they could not protect
> Draco any other way.

Brothergib again:
'You take too much for granted'  - I don't think this was a comment 
regarding the White Tower. I think this is all to do with Snape's 
dislike of Harry. DD is asking Snape to kill him to allow Harry the 
chance to finish off LV. Snape thinks that Harry is decidedly 
ordinary, and cannot see how he could possibly defeat the Dark Lord. 
I think this is the biggest bone of contention between Snape and DD. 
This is the reason for Snape's angry outburst after fleeing the White 
Tower. In fact it is possible that Snape (once he suspects that the 
Horcruxes are destroyed) will have a go at LV himself.

Carol again:
> 
> Predictions:
> Harry will forgive Snape and Snape will either be exonerated or 
given
> a light sentence such as charity work for St. Mungo's. He will have
> the chance to do the research he's so intellectually and magically
> qualified to do, either as a textbook writer or an Unspeakable. He
> will not return to Hogwarts as either a teacher or headmaster, but 
he
> will live. If he's still infamous, he'll shrug it off, caring only
> about his research. Maybe, just maybe, he'll get an Order of Merlin
> for saving Harry from the DEs and getting them out of Hogwarts (or
> some more conspicuous act of bravery in DH). Okay, that part is
> wishful thinking.

Brothergib;
I think that if, as we both suspect, Snape is involved in destroying 
Horcruxes, then at some point his pride will force him to inform LV 
of this fact. That, in itself, may bring about Snape's death. 
However, JKR talked about one character getting a reprieve. Perhaps 
LV will decide to deal with Snape after he has finished off Harry. So 
he may survive. I can't see him and Harry ever sharing a tender 
moment though! But maybe he will finally see Lily in Harry.

Carol again:
> 
> HRH will survive. Harry and Ron will go back to school after the
> defeat of LV and become Aurors. Hermione will have already completed
> school (as Head Girl) and will become Head of the Department for the
> Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, instituting all sorts 
of
> liberal reforms (hopefully taking the house-elves feelings into
> account rather than freeing them against their will). Ron and 
Hermione
> will marry but wait to have children (probably only one), and 
despite
> their contrasting personalities will be happy. Harry will marry 
Ginny
> but will not have twelve children or become Minister for Magic (I
> hope). He will lose only the powers in his scar and retain those he
> was born with. He and Ron will bore Hermione to tears discussing
> Quidditch but will not play professionally.

Brothergib again:
Absolutely agreed. The end of the book will probably focus on Harry 
and Ginny's child i.e. 'has Ginny's eyes but looked like Harry, only 
without the scar'.

Carol again:
> 
> Neville will also survive and become (yeah, I know it's boring) the
> new Herbology teacher, Professor Sprout having been killed in the
> Battle of Hogwarts.

Brothergib again:
Poetic justice will see Neville kill (or at least defeat) Bellatrix.
He will become Hebology teacher in the future, but hopefully only due 
to Professor Sprouts retirement!

Carol again:
> 
> Wishful thinking: No Weasley will die and Percy will be reconciled 
to
> his family after saving Ron from, erm, Rufus Scrimgeour? Seriously, 
I
> hope all the Weasleys will survive but fear that at least one will 
die
> as foreshadowed by Mrs. W's Boggart and the Weasley clock (which is 
a
> *grandfather clock* and could not have been carried around by Molly
> easley in her laundry basket, and what's the point of doing so if 
all
> the hands are already pointing to Mortal Peril)?

Brothergib again:
I worry that the 'two people' JKR mentioned would be lost during DH 
are the twins! Some ridiculous act of bravery no doubt. Bill may meet 
his maker attempting to break the curse on the locket.
One final prediction - the Marauders Map is going to come in handy. I 
think LV will enter the castle during Harry's absence. HRH (+ F&G + 
Order?) will enter Hogwarts via Honeydukes.

> 
> Carol, who thought that this would be a short post and has knots in
> her stomach worrying that what she'll find in DH will not at all
> resemble what she anticipates and hopes for
>
Brothergib again:
Agreeing for one last time. I think I have a good idea how DH will 
unfold. I think the biggest surprise will be how Harry defeats LV - 
something I remain very uncertain about.