Favorite theories proved wrong

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 172200

vmonte wrote: 
<snip>
> But let's get back to Snape. A few days ago someone commented on
what Dumbledore said in the cave in HBP. It reminded me of what I 
thought immediately after reading that passage: that it sounded like 
a confession. I looked my old post up and noticed that the more I 
thought about that scene the more convoluted and ridiculous my later
posts about it became. I may still be wrong about Dumbledore having a
checkered past but at least my first thought regarding that scene was
a lot more reasonable than some of the other crap I came up with  later. 
> 
> Actually, it was while I was responding about the Dumbledore cave 
scene (from the other day) that the thought occurred to me that 
perhaps Dumbledore understands Snape because of his checkered past. 
Maybe Voldemort's relationship with Snape is similar to what 
Grindelwald's relationship with Dumbledore was. Well, before I go on a
tangent I'll stop there. (Carol, do you read what I'm saying?) 
> 
> If Snape turns out to be Dumbledore's man I will be shocked, but I
will not be angry. 
> 
> I just wish he wasn't such an ass. 
> 
> lol
Carol responds:
Hi, Vivian. Actually, I'm not sure whether I understand what you're
asking. First, I probably shouldn't have made my remark about the
outrage of the anti-Snapers if Snape turns out to be DDM (though I
fully expect that to happen). Heck, if Snape turns out to be evil,
*I'll* howl with outrage, feeling that JKR has deceived and betrayed
me (which is how I felt the first time I read the tower scene).
<blush> I'll get over it, of course, but my fondness for the books may
be seriously weakened. I'm not sure why; I suppose it's because Snape
is such a marvelously rendered character, and most of my observations
regarding narrative technique, plot structure, character development,
etc., in some way relate to him. I see him as being almost as central
as Dumbledore even though he's more in the background, and to have him
turn out to be nothing but a predictable plot device will come close
to ruining the books for me. So, really. I apologize. I was projecting
my own fears for the outcome onto the other side. I shouldn't take it
so seriously. It's just a book, after all.

Regarding Dumbledore and the cave scene, I've thought from the
beginning that he was experiencing some sort of poisoned memory. The
bowl resembles a Pensieve; the green glow reminds me of an AK. LV,
assuming that he's the potion maker, seems to have taken someone's
anguished memory and added it to a potion that causes physical agony
and burning thirst, debilitating the drinker and bringing about slow
death. Alternatively, it may cause the drinker to relive his own worst
memory, as you suggest. And yet, that memory doesn't seem to me to be
DD's. My own thought was that it belonged to Tom Riddle Sr. and was
taken from him right before his death. It would reflect LV torturing
his parents, who had done nothing specifically to hurt young Tom, for
his own sin of neglecting his son and letting him grow up in an
orphanage. It's just a thought. I do hope that particular mystery
(along with how many others?) is solved in DH. If not, JKR is going to
spend the rest of her life answering the questions that she left
unresolved in DH.

As for Grindelwald, I think DD's connection with him consists solely
of discovering and destroying his Horcrux. I think that young Tom
Riddle either stole the secret of Horcrux-making from Grindelwald or
charmed him into taking him on as an apprentice and teaching him the
secrets of the trade. And then, like Darth What's His Name (not
Vader), possibly he murdered his own master (after DD had made
Grindelwald mortal, I mean). Wild speculation, of course, but
Grindelwald is in the books for a reason, and it seems likely to me
that he's the wizard known to both DD and LV who had made a single
Horcrux. And how better to "defeat" such a wizard than to destroy that
Horcrux? DD is a manipulator and he's not always truthful, but if he
has a "checkered past," I'll eat a box of Bertie Botts jelly beans,
ear wax and all. (Gah!)

Snape's relationship with DD is too complex to discuss here; it will
be a great topic post-DH, though. With luck, we'll have more canon
than we have now, or be able to see the canon from books 1-6 more clearly.

As for going on tangents--well, that's what a lot of us do, me in
particular. (It's the way my mind works, unfortunately.) I've noticed
them becoming less and less coherent as the end of all things, erm,
the last HP book, approaches. Once DH comes out and we've all
registered our initial reactions (grief, outrage, euphoria, triumph),
those of us who are still serious about the books can discuss them
somewhat more dispassionately. I'll bore anyone whose listening with
narrative technique and plot structure and foreshadowing and
atmosphere and etymology and theme and anything else that I think
sheds light on the books. I might even take a stab at symbolism.
(Carol visualizes half the group avoiding her future posts in horror
at the prospect of such topics.) And we'll be free to analyze the
characters as we would with any completed work, whether it's LoTR or
an Austen novel, with the benefit of hindsight. Assuming that we're
not so devastated by what JKR did to our favorite character that we
can't bear to talk about it. <grin>

Anyway, I hope not to experience a feeling of betrayal this time
around, regarding Snape or Harry or Dead-but-good!Dumbledore or
Neville or any other character I care about. Death is one thing, but
revealing that DD was wrong to trust Snape or having Harry or Neville
successfully cast an Unforgiveable Curse is another. I'll feel that
JKR has betrayed the values that she's established for her own moral
universe if either of those things happened. And I want Harry to be
surprised by Snape's loyalty and courage, not boringly confirmed in
his bad opinion. That would fit with the themes I see in the books and
with the plot structure I anticipate.

Carol, looking forward to redemption and forgiveness and
reconciliation after the inevitable deaths, not to revenge and
retribution and disillusionment regarding Dumbledore