[HPforGrownups] Harry Potter as a "Classic"/Snape's Redemption

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 172533

Katie:
I hear some people saying they'll never read the series again and 
some other such nonsense. Why? Would be my question. Now that I know 
HRH makes it through, I can't wait to read them ALL over again, and 
share them with my children and my grandchildren...

Magpie:
Um, because they've already read them and don't care to read them again?
Why is that strange? There are thousands of books I've read once.

Pip!Squeak:
The Prince's Tale Chapter does show Snape's moral redemption; it 
shows it happening slowly, year by year. At the beginning of Snape's 
going over to Dumbledore he's doing it to save Lily. He doesn't care 
if James and Harry get killed.

Magpie:
I realize he seemed to be better behaved as he got older--it couldn't help
being around better people (which is why they might want to think of
splitting the Slytherins up) but no, I didn't see him becoming what I
thought he was. He was much more narrow than I had imagined.

I didn't miss any of the things you listed here. None of them are near what
I assumed he had been doing all these years. As for collateral dammage...I
think he could deal with a bit of it, yes. 

D:
I've heard all these 'for his own purposes only', 'selfish' readings on
Snape. But let me ask you what would Snape gain for personal purpose by
saving all those people they mention while undercover? 

Magpie:
We're not dismissing what he did, we're just pointing out what was
eventually revealed to be going on with him. He switched sides. We can
acknowledge and respect the things that he did without having to lie about
what we saw in the character. I personally don't throw around the word evil
and wouldn't call Snape that. He just doesn't look good next to the guy I
thought was Snape up until now. Snape gained a personal redemption. Hurray
for Snape. He was an effective double agent.

dkewpie:
I'm surprsied at Ali and your one note reading of Snape. Just because we
found out Lily being the *initial* motivation for Snape doesn't mean he
never evolve or not care for anything else beside Lily later on.
And it certainly shouldn't flatten of his character in the previous books,
as least not the way I see it. 

Magpie:
I don't have a one-note reading of Snape. (Though given the guy was all
"always her!" for his whole life, one should remember that "one note"
actually was pretty important to him--he wasn't exactly well-rounded as a
personality.) I said he was less than I thought he was, and he is. I didn't
ignore the change that he went through over the years. It was a personal
change, and not as much of a personal change as I had imagined. And I am
somebody who's always been a Snape fan--and who happily predicted
LOLLIPOPS. I still haven't called him evil. He just shrunk.

DKewpie:

Leslie, EXACTLY! 
And Snape doesn't care for fame/recognitions/order of merlins or whatever
superficial things that haters used to always bashed Snape for either.
In fact, Snape does the right thing and risk his life knowing he gets
NOTHING in return, and when i say nothing I really mean NOTHING. 

Magpie:
You're assuming that he must have gotten NOTHING because he didn't get any
material gains. One can do things that are important to one without that
kind of gain, that doesn't mean you're not getting anything out of it. This
was something Snape needed to do for himself. He's not doing it for
personal gain in the sense we usually think of it, but I would never say he
got nothing out of it. It was his personal obsession. Lily meant something
to him, and his way of loving her and doing right by her after her death
did something for him. 

houyhnhnm:

" . . . thought we were supposed to be friends?" Snape 
was saying. "Best friends?"
"We are, Sev . . . ."

Note the question marks. Without the question marks, 
Snape's words could be heard as sarcasm or whining, 
but with them, he's asking her a question. "Are we 
friends, best friends?" And Lily says yes, we are.
Stalkers are not interested in the feeling of their 
victims. They don't ask, "Are we friends?"

Magpie:
On this small point I have to say: yes, I think they would. All the time.
I'm not saying this proves Snape is a stalker, but it doesn't seem like he
particularly isn't there. He's demanding that she pledge herself as his.
Snape and Lily's friendship ended because Snape had a lot of screwed up
ideas about what it meant to be friends--and I don't think he ever really
did quite understand them. He did the best he could as he understood
things, but I look at him and see tons more missed opportunities another
man wouldn't have missed. But Snape can only be himself, of course.

-m