On Portraits, Patronus and Animagus - OH MY!!

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 172769

> guzu wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172597
>Maybe. Snape was a Ministry-appointed Headmaster, right? Is there a
portrait of
>Umbridge in the Headmaster's office? It's not mentioned either way,
but when Harry walks in
>to all the applause and tears of the portraits at the end, I think
Umbridge's would have
>stood out, had it been there; it wouldn't have been too happy.
 

colebiancardi:

Doesn't DD state that the portraits respond only to a true
*headmaster*?  As Snape is carrying on conversations and having at
least one portrait, other than Dumbledore's, report to him and do his
bidding, I believe Snape is a *true* headmaster of Hogwarts.  I don't
know if Snape was Ministry appointed and even if he was, I don't know
*how* Headmasters are picked anyway.  Is there a vote?  Or does the
MoM appoint them all to begin with?

The lack of Snape's portrait in the Headmaster's office is a thin clue
for me to theorize that Snape *didn't* really die.  Hope against hope.
  He went underground and move to America :)


In post http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172563
> Shelley
>
> I would disagree- we have no proof that James made his Stag first,
and then
> Lilly got subservient with a Doe Patronus! 
> Rather, I think it's much more likely that Lilly first produced her
Doe, and
> then James, wanting to be the one to "get her", made his the
handsome Stag.
> After all, we have proof from earlier memories seen in the Pensieve that
> James adored Lilly long before they developed a relationship.

> Diana wrote:
>To me, Lily's patronus being a doe while her husband's was a stag
>just symbolized how well suited they were to each other as a couple.
>After all, your patronus repreents your true inner self.  

colebiancardi:

I don't think and I could be wrong, that a wizard has a choice over
his/her animagus shape.  Now, on to the who got it first:  Lily or James?
Well, as I stated, I don't think James had any choice over his Stag
form.  We do know that he was an animagus by the fourth year, as in
The Prince's Tale, the prank happened the year before Snape's worst
memory, which was set in the 5th year.    As all the Wizards/Witches
giving the fifth year OWLS were impressed and amazed that Harry could
produce a fully-formed patronus (and he is now in his 5th year), I
would go out on a limb and state that Lily did not have a patronus
before James had an animagus form.  I think once they fell in love,
snogged, shagged, whatever, that was *her* happy moment and her
patronus took on the fitting female counterpart to James' animagus form.

Also, I don't think James *adored* Lily right off the bat.  The scene
in the train when they first met, James ignores Lily & Snape until the
word Slytherin is mentioned.   When James & Sirius leave the
compartment, James mimics her attitude.  


> Diana wrote:
>Snape's patronus was most likely a bat originally, IMO. Did anyone
>else think that the large bat-shaped object flying away from the
>castle after Snape jumped out the window was Snape in his animagus
bat form?  

colebiancardi:

I thought that at first, but then McGonagall stated the following:
"No, he is not dead," said McGonagall bitterly. "Unlike Dumbledore,
he was still carrying his wand...and he seems to have learned a few
tricks from his master"
With a tingle of horror, Harry saw in the distance a huge, batlike
shape flying through the darkness toward the perimeter wall.

US ed, p 599

Why would McGonagall state that if it was just an animagus?  She has
one herself - why would she call it a *trick*?  I agree with Aida in
post http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172446
who stated:

>I think the 'trick' he learned from Voldie was how to fly w/out a
>broom - remember the Order members were horrified that he could fly
>when the 7 Harry's were being chased?

colebiancardi:

I think he just transformed himself into a bat, as Krum did as a shark
in GoF.  This enabled Snape to fly.  But that doesn't mean that is his
animagus, just that Snape knows his transfigurations :)


>pforparvati wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172620
>I was surprised to find that DD didn't know about Snape's
>patronus until Snape himself showed him. After all the years working
>for order,especially after GoF when Order was recalled and started
>working, how it was possible that DD never got a message in the form of
>Snape's patronus until HBP.  

colebiancardi:
I think DD was just surprised that Snape still had that devotion to
Lily after all of these years;  or maybe Snape can change his
patronus;  or maybe Snape *never* used his patronus.  At any rate, if
Snape used his doe patronus, perhaps the other members didn't quite
get the connection.  After all, there is a finite number of animals to
choose from :)


In post http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172635
>Marika wrote:
> think you're absolutely right about them not being secret friends.
>She told him that her friends did not understand why she was his
>friend, and he also said he was going to sleep outside the Gryffindor
>entrance if she did not talk to him.
>I'm just as confused myself why Lupin never told Harry.(Black disliked
>Snape so much that I doubt he would ever say anything "good" about
>him.) The only thing I can come up with is that Snape told Lupin not
>to tell (like he one had asked Dumbledore), and that Lupin agreed
>because he thought that Harry didn't need to know...


colebiancardi:

I agree.  I never understood why Lupin didn't tell Harry that Lily was
friends with Snape.  Or that Lupin would believe the lame story that
Harry told the order at the end of HBP in the hospital wing.  Or even
Hagrid, who can't keep a secret to save his life.  Even if DD ordered
Hagrid not to say anything, well, it wouldn't be the first time that
Hagrid *accidentally* spilled the beans.

> PM wrote in post
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172643:
>She was never making the statement that ONLY Gryffindors are good and
>ONLY Slytherins are evil...we know that is not true. Not all
>Gryffindors are without fault and not all Slytherins are evil.
>That's a rather narrow view of the books.

colebiancardi:

really, she isn't?  Doesn't she make DD say to Snape, when Snape
states he will not run off like Karkaloff, that Snape was *sorted too
soon*?  What was that ALL about?  That a Slytherin cannot be brave &
loyal;  that only belongs to the Gryf's?  Even Snape was taken aback
by that comment.  And although Harry tells his kid that the bravest
person he ever knew was Slytherin Snape, he whispers it.  Harry's
other kid, James, teases Al about sorting into Slytherin;  Ron tells
his child you better not be sorted into Slytherin.  So, the old biases
still remain in the Potter & Weasley household, despite what Harry
told his youngest son.  

>UNIX4EVR wrote in post
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172671
>But they were NOT friends at school. JKR makes it clear that after the
>sorting Lily goes to Gryfindor and Snape to Slytherin. When they met
>after that it was one on one. People might have known they knew each
>other before school but they were NOT friends in school.

colebiancardi:
nope, not quite true.  They were friends, as Snape asks Lily if they
were best friends and she replies yes.  This is when they were at
Hogwarts, BTW.  Was it a big, dark secret?  Nope, because Lily's
friends tease her about her friendship with Snape.

> Bart wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172705:
>Well, we actually know of 3 "good" Slytherins: Snape, Slug, and Phin.
Based on
>what we've learned from them, a major trait they have is a belief
that the end
>justifies the means. 

colebiancardi: 

Not true, not true.  Don't forget poor Regulus.  He was a Slytherin
and in the bittersweet end, he did the right thing.  He actually
sacrificed himself for trying to defeat LV.  And what was his belief?
 It doesn't seem to be the same as Slughorn or Phinellis.  Snape is a
different story all together.

Also, I am still perplexed by the conversation that DD had with Draco
at the end of Half-Blood Prince.  You know, the infamous "They cannot
kill you if you are already dead" speech that was in the Hardcover US
editions, but not in the UK or the paperback US editions.  Was that
just a FLINT?  A tease?  A big-old major mistake on the editors part?