[HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherins: selfish, not evil + Ariana raped?

[Lenore]

No: HPFGUIDX 172775


>Erin:
> > Ah, precisely. Ulterior motives are the hallmark of a Slytherin.
>We sometimes forget that students aren't Sorted based upon their
>family background, or what they're wearing that day, or whatever.
>They're Sorted based upon what is at the core of their
>personalities. The criteria for being Sorted into Slytherin (as best
>I can remember, not having my books on hand at work) is to put self
>first. To look out for number one. And given what we know now, we
>can see that selfishness is the greatest sin in JKR's world.
>
>Magpie:
>Exactly. Though I don't think Snape's quite so much a success story
>as you say. He's not the only Slytherin to sacrifice himself--they
>just sacrifice for reasons that mean something to them even when
>they're doing the sacrificing. So even Snape's redemptive sacrifice
>was, imo, a personal one that didn't go beyond himself as it could
>have. He sacrificed himself and saved himself. I don't happen to
>find the "it takes all kinds so learn to live with the assholes" all
>that inspiring myself, but that definitely seems to be the message
>of JKR's Christ-figure.
>
>Julie:
>I think this is an unfair assessment though. In reality there is some
>measure of self-interest in *everything* we do. We give to a cause
>or help build a house with Habitat-For-Humanity partly because the act
>makes us feel good about ourselves. Snape's sacrifices were in part
>motivated by selfishness (assuaging his guilt over Lily's death) but
>especially as time went by, he acted selflessly on numerous occasions.
>It didn't benefit him in any way whatsoever to keep helping Dumbledore
>defeat Voldemort once he knew Harry would be sacrificed--*saving* Harry
>to honor Lily was his original "selfish" motive. It didn't benefit him
>to save a man he truly despised (Lupin). Too many things Snape did were
>not motivated by pure self-interest, as supposedly befits a Slytherin,
>IMO.
>
>Julie, who thinks the whole concept of Sorting is directly opposed to
>Dumbledore's belief that it is our choices which define us.

Lenore:
Exactly!  Thank you Julie for bringing a bit more balance into the discussion.
The qualities of the four houses *must* be in all of us; the problem is how do
we harmonize and integrate them.  But if we demonize one-fourth of the
entire human population and give them a label to keep them separate and
different from ourselves, what kind of message is that?

This was probably the most important aspect of the books which I'd hoped
to see resolved and it was not handled at all!  "That's just the way the world
is" is not good enough for me. The one-fourth of the world that is "bad"
or "most likely to go bad" is countered by one-fourth of the world which is
"extra special".  To just leave it that way at the end of the books 
just doesn't
make any sense to me.  The deeper problem of both Muggle world and WW
is this very unresolved issue.  Yes, I know Harry said it was okay with him
for one of his kids to be in Slytherin if he chose, but it seemed kind of
lame.  It would have had more punch if he and Draco had been able to
truly narrow the distance between them.  After all, they had both suffered
terribly, and they had had 19 years in which to heal some of it.  IMO,
they will have to do it eventually.

Conflict and prejudice and inequality-perception have at their root our
insistence on seeing others as different and "other" than 
ourselves--not a part
of us.  That makes it easier to scapegoat them and project our own 
failings onto
them. In PS/SS, we see a lot of that in the Dursley household. Then 
Harry is so
happy because at Hogwarts he's free of them, yet he doesn't notice 
that the same
kinds of perceptual distortions, conflicts, judgments, attacks, et 
al. are constantly
going on between himself and the Slytherins? It's just the Dursleys 
all over again,
amplified by a large factor.

Snape is the only character I have seen who has been able to integrate the
qualities of all four of the houses in himself, to a large extent.

Lenore, has more thoughts on this but will withdraw for now to collect them...