[HPforGrownups] Re: Ron and Hermione in Deathly Hallows

[Maeg]

No: HPFGUIDX 173069


On Jul 26, 2007, at 9:26 AM, sdeepthi wrote:

> Deepthi:
> Hi all, I am responding to multiple posts here..
>
> ---------
> LKH said:
>
> JKR sucks at romance. For one... I do not get all the Hermione/Ron  
> shippers.  It is not normal in my opinion to constantly bicker with  
> your crush... Usually people put on their BEST behavior when trying  
> to win the one they love.
>
> Deepthi:
> Ron is a teenager, and teenagers are very awkward with the opposite  
> sex, more so when they feel an attraction. I thought JKR's  
> portrayal here was dead on. There are all kinds of possible starts  
> to a relationship, and something where you get all the bickering  
> out right at the beginning may actually have a better chance in the  
> long run, than one where everything has been sugar-coated to start  
> with, and it is only later that you see the person's true colors.   
> Ron and Hermione do care for each other - that is why Ron gets  
> jealous when Hermione goes to the Yule ball with Krum in GoF,  
> Hermione is furious when Fleur kisses Ron after the second task in  
> GoF, and Hermione hurtles to the hospital wing when Ron almost dies  
> in HBP (in Slughorn's office)
>
> LKH said:
> <snip>
> the infatuation with his mother (he wanted to FEAST upon her image)  
> made the ship entirely creepy. There wasnt enough true buildup....  
> No connection of souls so to speak.
>
> Deepthi:
> The actual quote is "His /eyes/ feasted on her" Harry is a teenager  
> who has no real memories of his mother. The only memory he has is  
> of Voldemort killing his mum. With this background, it is not  
> surprising that he couldn't take his eyes off her, he knew that he  
> would have to face Voldemort very soon, and by necessity take his  
> attention off her.  As for a connection, everyone feels a  
> connection to their mother, even if they have no memories of her  
> alive.  We seem to be living in an age where all innocence has been  
> lost, and even your relationship with your mother is suspect.
>
> LKH:
> JKR's blatant lack of understanding human Sexuality killed the
> whole story for me. I was sorely dissapointed that she could
> delve into the aspects of Torture and other deeply disturbing
> human emotions.. yet she couldnt touch sexuality with a ten foot
> pole.
>
> Deepthi:
>
> You are within your rights to say that she didn't portray sexuality  
> the way you wanted it, but please don't turn it into a personal  
> attack on her.

It's not a matter of "how I wanted it" -- that makes it sound like  
I'm at fault (even though I didn't write that comment; I just agree  
with it).

JKR's portrayal of romantic (note, not sexual) love largely fell flat  
for me. I didn't *feel* any of it. Harry's initial feelings for Cho  
were probably the ones that worked best for me; all of the others  
were cold and flat.

> We have to remember that JKR is writing for a audience that varies  
> in age from seven to ninety (or more). She had to be very subtle  
> with any portrayals of sexuality. It is there in the canon, if you  
> read carefully..

Er, no. I think kids understand that their parents love each other  
differently than they love their children. It's related, but  
different, and the difference is important. You don't need to have  
explicit sex scenes or elaborate descriptions -- you just need good  
ones, and I don't think JKR did that.

continues:

> GoF: At the Yule Ball, Snape is blasting rosebushes apart, and  
> couples emerge from them.  Obviously, teenagers in Harry's world  
> are like teenagers in the real world, they have physical  
> relationships, they wouldn't need to hide if they are simply  
> holding hands, or looking at each other.
>
> OoTP: It takes Harry half an hour to return to the common room  
> after he kisses Cho.
>
> HBP: Ron pulls Lavendar into an empty classroom, if they just  
> wanted to kiss, they have no problems doing that in front of everyone.
>
> DH: Ron shoots a guilty look at Lupin when he has to hold on to  
> Tonks (chapter 4).  Obviously, he is very aware of her as a woman.

These are mostly about physical actions, not the emotion of romantic  
love.

> There are plenty of such scenes, not even counting Harry's obvious  
> reactions to Cho and Ginny. I felt that it was very true to life  
> without getting too much into the details.

As I said, I'll give you Cho, but I never bought Harry's feelings for  
Ginny. I found the concept of Harry protecting Ginny by not  
displaying his affection very sad and moving, but it was only the  
*concept*. I never really felt that JKR convinced me that Harry truly  
valued her as a person and as a romantic entanglement. I was just  
told that, and it seemed somewhat trite. Bah.

I don't give a fig about JKR's ability or inabilty to understand  
romantic love, but I do care about her inability to write  
convincingly about it. For a series that hounds on the idea that  
"love is the savior" and whose narrative arc is about growing up,  
this seems to be a large flaw.

I'm reminded of Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain. Taran and  
Eilonwy's arc is similar to Ron and Hermoine's, but it seems like  
that was handled much more convincingly. Maybe I'm misremembering (it  
has been a decade since I've read them). But Alexander managed to  
give us romantic love in a real children's book (that is, juvenile  
fiction, not young adult fiction). I suppose you could argue that  
Taran and Eilonwy's arc was more central to the story, but still, JKR  
had lots more pages to handle this if she'd been able to.

Maeg

My mind isn't always in the gutter -- sometimes it comes out to feed.