Slytherins/Krum are/are not Jews.../The Houses Again

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 173678

> > Magpie:
> > Basically that would make them cowards, which in this universe is 
one 
> > of the worst things you could be. Plenty of students in other 
houses 
> > also had reason to fear that kind of retribution, but they fought 
> > anyway. Being afraid wasn't really an excuse. Everybody's afraid.
> > 
> Renee:
> I wasn't talking about fear of retribution. What I was trying to say
> was that their upbringing and their outlook on life did not 
predispose
> them to truly see the evil in Voldemort, or to go against it. Not
> because they were necessarily cowards, but because they just didn't
> feel too strongly about the issue to fight. 

Magpie:
Oh! Sorry, I thought you meant that they wanted to stay but didn't 
because they were afraid. But I think this is possible too, 
absolutely. I think it was clear that it wasn't important to them--
some Slytherins had things more important to them than Voldemort, 
usually people they cared about--they're not all Bellatrixes. And I 
think Slughorn clearly wanted to stay away from Voldemort enough that 
when push came to shove he would fight.

Ceridwen:
Slytherins in general are given the stereotypical traits associated
with undesireable groups. They have some tendency toward aristocracy
in a world where there is no wizarding nobility. They are ambitious in
a negative way. They are cunning, so may well cheat or embezel (sp?)
you. They are big talkers who can't "walk the walk". They are
betrayers, Judases, as Pansy Parkinson was when she pointed to Harry 
in the Great Hall. They prefer to save their own skin if given the
opportunity. They are secretive and they plot against others. They
oppress when given the chance. Every trait that is negative is heaped
on the Slytherins. This has happened via stereotyping for millenia.

Magpie:
Yes, that was my impression while reading. And I just don't find the 
solution that prejudice will always be there and there's nothing you 
can do about it a very good ending to a 7-book bildugsroman (one 
which started off with the same premise to begin with). Obviously in 
the real world prejudice exists and continues to do so, but I don't 
agree that there's nothing that can change. Specific beliefs can 
change, especially when somebody is forced to change their thinking. 
Often people simply aren't forced to change their thinking. Sometimes 
even being presented with clear proof that the persecuted group is 
worthy of total respect won't make people change.

But these books aren't the real world, they take place in a school. I 
think there could have been more than there was, and more of an 
attempt than they're was. I don't think it would have been 
unrealistic.

But this is JKR's book and she didn't have to do that if she didn't 
want to. Obviously that wasn't where her interest lay, and she didn't 
owe it to me to give it to me. But this was my reaction to the book 
and perhaps the books from now on. I didn't post it to make others 
feel badly or feel stupid--I didn't realize it was so upsetting to 
others to read stuff like this, since I'm generally not as bothered 
by hearing books I liked criticized (sometimes it makes me like the 
books less, sometimes not) and obviously it interests me. But maybe I 
understand it a bit in that I don't particularly enjoy posts about 
the negative effect on the group in general (or posts mocking this 
thread outside the group).

Anyway, I don't mean to keep beating a dead horse--probably I 
wouldn't have posted quite as much except that there were certain 
misunderstandings that were a bit too horrible to let stand, like 
that Slytherins were supposed to be persecuted Jews in canon or that 
Shylock-type stereotypes were actually real.

-m