Dateline Redemption was Re: Victory for TEWWW EWWW

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 173726

 
> > pair_0_docks:
> > 
> > Yes I probably could have just put the more of the quote in 
there 
> but
> > she continues after stating:
> > 
> > "He's a complicated man...he's bitter, he's spiteful, he's a 
bully,
> > all of these things are still true of Snape.
> > 
> > Was he brave yes immensely, was he capable of love very
> > definitely...Harry forgives him. Harry sees the good in Snape."

Alla:

Thanks. I just read the complete transcript. At least I think it was 
a complete transcript and I am quite happy with it :), but I am 
still wondering how it is possible that in the first one she said 
she does not see him as hero and now she is saying she is a hero to 
the extent.

I was told offlist that the first one was a teaser ( thank you), but 
am wondering how can she be saying different things. Oh well, does 
not really matter.


 pair_0_docks:
>> > Curious to know how you would define hero? I guess it does seem
> > possible, to me at least, that a person (Snape) can still act
> > heroically and yet still have some other negative 
qualities...<SNIP> 

Lupinlore:
> Hmmm.  I can't speak for Alla but I would say that the problem 
with 
> many of the arguments about Snape as a hero is that they try to 
say 
> that somehow his brave acts completely redeem him from his abuse 
of 
> Harry.  I would say that they most certainly do NOT.  He remains 
the 
> same bitter, spiteful, cramped little man that he was in the 
> beginning.  <SNIP> He never had any feeling for Harry as a person, 
which 
> is what could have granted him true redemption.  Instead, he is 
> driven by his emotional burden to protect a boy that he hates and 
> whom he never would have helped, otherwise.
> 
> Thus Snape is, as JKR puts it, a hero to an extent, in that he 
does 
> very brave things for the good side.  But he is not a hero in the 
> sense of being fully redeemed.  Unlike Harry or Ron or Hermione, 
or 
> for that matter unlike Percy, he is unable to find his way to 
> rejecting the full darkness within himself.  Percy turns his back 
on 
> his embrace of the Ministry and his spurning of his family.  Snape 
> cannot turn his back on his bitterness and cruelty.  Dumbledore 
asks 
> him "Have you come to care for the boy after all, Severus?"  In 
that 
> moment the door is open for Snape's full redemption.  It is the 
> tragedy of Snape's bitterness and cruelty that he slams it shut 
again 
> immediately.  <SNIP>


Alla:

Hmmm, how would I define hero. Funnily of course I know that 
mythology defines heroes as people with immense bravery and self 
sacrifice, so theoretically Snape certainly should be called a hero.

Maybe that does make sense that JKR calls him a hero to the extent, 
I do not know.

But I would not call him a hero, no. Because yeah, to me hero is a 
good person, NOT perfect person, no, but person who tries to do good 
for the sake of doing good. 

Which is not to say that personal motivation cannot be thrown into 
the mix, but personal motivation to me at least should not be the 
only one in order to call a character a hero.

That is why I can call plenty of people on good sides heroes - 
Weasleys, who fight not only for the happiness of their family, but 
for the  better world, do they not?

Arthur who gets bitten patrolling the prophecy that has nothing to 
do with his family, Bill who fights to save students in HBP, etc, 
etc.

Percy, who comes back and turns his back on ministry.

Is Dumbledore a hero? Well, yeah, to me he is.


Is Harry a hero to me? Most definitely. Yeah, Voldemort killed his 
mum and dad, but he also wants to save people from Vodlemort, other 
people, who had nothing to do with him.


Kingsley, Tonks, Moody who turn their backs on their employer and 
fight for what's right. Sure, Tonks looks for Lupin a lot in this 
book, but she joined the Order in OOP, does she not? When presumably 
she had nothing to do with Lupin yet.

Is Sirius a hero to me? Oh, sure of course here I am incredibly 
biased, but no matter how many personal flaws he has, he rejects his 
dark family and fights for light side.

Sure he loves Harry very much, but again he makes a choice when 
Harry was not even born yet, and he choses the right side.


Snape?  Well, I do agree with LL, I think, heheh.

I also remember arguing long time ago with somebody who was saying 
that personal affection for Harry does not make person good, in 
relation to totally different character.

Well, surely not - in general it does not.

But I believe that in regards to Snape LL is correct. Dumbledore's 
question was opening a door to Snape's redemption.


It is not because Snape is obligated to love Harry, it is because he 
did so much bad to him, it is because he so despicably fails to see 
that those green eyes are Lily's eyes for so long, I do not think 
that he is a complete hero at least, or maybe not a hero at all, if 
under hero you include being a good person, and Snape certainly does 
not fall under my definition of good person.

JMO,

Alla