Harry and Snape's Salvation (Re: No progress for Slytherin?)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 173881

Magpie:
> 
> > So I was just saying that it was not part of Harry's development 
to 
> > be humbled and see a real connection between himself and the 
uglier 
> > parts of his enemies, which I consider a bare minimum of a 
character 
> > who's a model of compassion. 

> Pippin:
> But surely you don't have to be an evildoer yourself to have
> compassion for evildoers? In fact, that sort of compassion might 
read
> as self-serving. I think Harry does understands that he, Snape and
> Riddle were all damaged through abandonment, and that it was luck 
more
> than virtue that he, having  received more love than they did, took
> less damage than they. Surely baby Riddle and baby Snape
> haddonenothing to make their families reject them. Harry, at any 
rate,
> has no trouble at all understanding why they were so bitter and 
angry
> once he has learned their history.

Magpie:
Of course not! I didn't realize I even implied you had to be an 
evildoer to have compassion for them. I know Harry likes identifying 
with people about things like being an orphan and abandoned--though 
no, I don't see him going as far as you're even going here. You don't 
have to be an evil doer to be in the state that I described--and 
though "evildoer" is a strong word, there's plenty of things Harry's 
done wrong in his life, of course.

Regardless, I didn't say Harry was never compassionate, I said he was 
in no way a model of compassion, and I still think that. And I think 
that reflects the values of the rest of the books--many things take 
priority, certainly for Harry. 

Pippin:
> 
> I haven't read all the posts, and what's more, my copy of DH is
> somewhere in lost luggage limbo (grrrr!) but I'm concerned that it's
> rapidly becoming fanon that there's been absolutely no change in the
> sorting process. IIRC, that's not so. 

Magpie:
Where is it canon that there's any change in the Sorting process? The 
most I've heard is an interview where JKR says Slytherins 
is "diluted" and no longer the "bastion of Pureblood superiority" 
whatever that means exactly, but that wasn't what it Sorted by in 
PS/SS anyway. 

Pippin:
> 
> The Sorting process was  a mystery and a Big Secret to Muggleborn 
and
> pureblood alike in Harry's year; Ron thought he  might have to 
wrestle
> a troll. That isn't the case any more, to judge by Harry's
> conversation with Al. So  parents have relinquished some control and
> they're doing what's right, helping the kids make their own choices
> rather taking the easy path of puppetmastering them into the House 
the
> parents think is best. 

Magpie:
What can I say? I don't see any of that hinted anywhere in canon.
Ron thought he had to fight a troll because he had older brothers who 
were winding him up. I don't see any big parental control there. 
Harry's conversation with Al is a conversation between one father and 
son, one that could easily have taken place in Harry's own first 
year, as long as that parent had been through the Sorting himself and 
could tell the kid what it was like. (And in Harry's case, he can 
tell the kid that you can choose against Slytherin, which only he 
knows because that's what he did--though he's never told anybody this 
before, including his elder kids.)

Pippin:
 
> Naturally Harry hopes that Al would be chosen for Gryffindor, and 
has
> some concerns about Slytherin still, but I think it's clear that 
it's
> better by far in Harry's eyes to be a brave Slytherin than a 
cowardly
> Gryffindor.  If you can only be brave for selfish reasons, that's
> still better than being an altruistic coward.

Magpie:
Well, yeah. I think that was always the case. Of course Harry would 
prefer a brave Slytherin to a cowardly Gryffindor, and would have 
before. Brave is good.

Pippin:  
> As we've learned, the Slytherins do *not* always save their own 
skins
> first, and can fight fiercely for their beliefs, right or wrong.  I
> doubt any attempt to abolish the House would succeed unless the
> Slytherins themselves wanted it abolished, which they clearly don't,
> and why should they? 

Magpie:
I don't want the house abolished--I would of course deal with it 
differently, but I would have done that throughout canon. I'm just 
reacting to the role it played in the story. And also saying that 
compassion is not a virtue I'd ever use Harry Potter to demonstrate. 
Not because he never feels it, but because I'm usually feeling more 
of it than he is for more people for more reasons at any given moment 
in his story. 

-m