Harry and Snape's Salvation (Re: No progress for Slytherin?)

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 173897


> Lupinlore:
> Except, of course, that JKR has told us (if you believe that 
> authorial intent means anything, which of course is a point of 
> argument)

zgirnius:
I am not a big fan of authorial intent. Prior to the release of DH 
interviews were a source of clues and an indication of which theories 
were worth considering. Now I do consider myself in possession of all 
of the facts. That said, my training is not in the humanities and I 
have little interest in debating the merits of different schools of 
literary criticism.

> Lupinlore:
> That is 
> (paraphrasing) "he is still a cruel, bitter, insecure man, all of 
> this is still true of Snape."  As his cruelty and bitterness and 
> insecurity are the very things that constitute the dark within 
> himself from which he needs to be redeemed, he has by definition 
not 
> had a deathbed conversion, and thus has not embraced the 
possibility 
> represented by Harry.

zgirnius:
Actually, he's dead, so he's not any of the above. I therefore take 
the quote to be a general statement about his character. What I took 
the quoted text to mean was to remind those of us who are still 
recovering from the overwelming emotional experience that was Chapter 
33 that Books 1-6 still happened. The new information does not erase 
what we saw about Snape and his relationship with Harry, it just 
finally gives us the explanation. 

I took the intent of the quote to be a refutation of certain DDM! 
theories that Snape's unpleasantness was always an act, a necessary 
part of his role as a spy. And I feel that even without the cited 
comment by Rowling, DH canon makes this point. Snape says the same 
sorts of things about Harry in private with the one man who knows all 
of his secrets as he does in public - so it was no act.

Even though I attach some significance to Snape's choice to deliver 
the memories to Harry, had Hermione pulled something out of her bag 
of tricks that actually allowed Snape to survive, I would not expect 
that Snape and Harry would get along at all well after. 

The other thing Rowling said, that I also believe and get from the 
text as well, is that Snape loathed Harry until the end, unfairly. 
(Paraphrase). That does not preclude acting on a feeling that he 
wants to give Harry an explanation, any more than it precludes trying 
to help Harry. 

> Lupinlore:
> Why did he provide the memories?  An interesting question.  
Frankly, 
> my answer would be he provides them because JKR wants to fill in 
the 
> backstory and this is the convenient way to do it. 

zgirnius:
She had creative freedom to choose how to get that information to us 
and to Harry, and the text of DH is what she chose. If it has 
possible implications that she did not consider, she still wrote it, 
it is still the solution that best fit her vision for whatever 
reason. Which makes it fair game for analyzing the book and the 
characters.

Though, since I see nothing in her interview comments which precludes 
my interpretation that it was a conscious and deliberate decision by 
Snape to give those memories, I think she did intend it.

> Lupinlore:
> As far as your 
> point about a "meaningful gesture," a "yes" and an explanation to 
> Albus would have the virtue of being clear, whereas Snape's 
memories 
> contain no sense of regret over his treatment of Harry or an 
> acceptance of Harry -- at least none I can find in any way.  His 
> anger at being told that Harry must sacrifice himself seems to be 
> anger at being used and lied to, as he in fact indicates when he 
> specifically denies caring for Harry.

zgirnius:
I don't necessarily think he *did* regret his treatment of Harry, 
particularly. I do not approve of it, but it has never mattered all 
that much to me. Snape wronged Harry far more greatly before they 
ever met, and while nothing he did or could ever do would make up for 
that, what he proved to have been doing all those years as a spy and 
protector of Harry matters more to me than his teaching issues.

What the memories do show, quite clearly, is Snape's true remorse for 
his role in the death of Harry's parents (yes, I know, he cared a lot 
more about Lily, James was an afterthought), and his innocence in the 
matter of Dumbledore's murder; matters that are far more important to 
me, and I believe also to Harry.

At the time Snape and Dumbledore had the 'pig to slaughter' 
conversation, Snape was not thinking of himself as an actor in a 
Pensieve recording he was making for the benefit of Harry Potter. I 
would have found a straightforward admission to Dumbledore of any 
sort of care of regret for the fate of Harry hard to swallow under 
those circumstances. The last thing I would expect Snape to do upon 
discovering that he was, in a sense, betrayed, would be to admit in 
any way to a new emotional vulnerability, supposing he had one.

> Lupinlore:
> If one wants a more plot-consistent reason for supplying the 
> memories, maybe he had little control over what memories leaked 
out --
>  he was, as you say, dieing after all.  Or even more likely he 
chose 
> them out of anger at Dumbledore -- a way of saying "look what a 
> cruel, manipulative liar the old man was!"

zgirnius:
The memories were not chosen to be maximally hurtful to Harry. 
Showing less of Dumbledore would have been far more effective for 
that purpose. Not showing any of his anger at young!Snape and not 
showing any of his defenses of Harry to Snape, would have been better.

If the memories were consciously chosen, what they did best was to 
explain Snape to Harry while passing on the information Harry needed 
from Dumbledore.