Patronuses (was Re: Dumbledore: Patronus and Dementors (specifically Snape's)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 174018

> > Potioncat:
> > I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this before, but the Patronus
reflects the caster's source of protection; it does not reflect the
person who casts the spell. <snip>

Carol responds:
I have. :-) Can't get the search engine to work now, or I'd provide a
link. However, JKR refers to a Patronus as a wizard's "spirit
guardian." Harry's reflects James, who lives on in his heart according
to DD ("the dead we love never leave us") even though he never really
knoew his father. Tonks', whatever it was before, reflects Lupin, not
herself; Snape's reflects Lily. (McGonagall, who apparently never fell
in love, has a Patronus to match her Animagus, but that doesn't seem
to be usual. And it's a bit disturbing that Umbridge's is also a cat.)
Anyway, I think Hermione's otter Patronus reflects Ron, not her own
playful spirit! :-)

And the etymology of Patronus, as I've said before, supports this
idea. "Patronus" is an actual Latin word meaning" protector, defender,
patron," which was used in Medieval Latin to mean, "patron saint" and
is derived from "pater" (father)--another link to James, in Harry's
case. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/169350 
I explored the subject in more detail in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/167259 if anyone's
interested.
 
Potioncat:
> > On a side note. I'm sure Snape's comment to Tonks about her
Patronus being weak, was his way of saying Lupin was weak. <snip>

> marion:
> At the time, I though he was being spiteful.  And he was, but now I
wonder if he was making a comment about himself also.

Carol:
I think he's being snide, all right, but I think he's also expressing
his real view of Lupin, who reveals himself as weak in SWM, throughout
PoA, and again in DH when he comes close to deserting his wife and
unborn child. Maybe Snape saw that sort of breakdown coming;
certainly, he could not have missed Lupin's premature aging and
depression whenever they were together in Order HQ. And he sees what
unrequited love is doing to Tonks, who is wearing her heart on her
sleeve, which in his view, is a sign of weakness. (He has concealed
his own love at least since Lily's death, if you don't count a sour
disposition and wearing black.)

I do wonder what other form of communication he used to communicate
with the Order. (I wonder if Lupin would have understood what it meant
and why DD trusted him; Black, however, would probably have sneered at
it. They would not, however, have laughed or called it weak if they
knew it represented Lily.) His students, however, would not have
understood that a Patronus does not represent the caster, and I can
see why he chose not to teach that spell.

I'm guessing that in OoP he used Dumbledore's fireplace rather than
his Patronus to communicate with Black and later with the Order
members Black had presumably called there. Umbridge said that all the
fireplaces were being monitored except her own, but she couldn't get
into DD's office and neither, I suspect, could the MoM. Snape,
however, knew the password.

In any case, there's nothing weak about Snape's Patronus, which
reflects Lily, not himself. It's as bright as Harry's, and would
probably be just as powerful against Dementors.

"It was a silver-white doe, moon'bright and dazzling, picking her way
over the ground, still silent, and leaving no hoofprints in the fine
powdering of snow. She stepped toward him, her beautiful head with its
wide, long-lashed eyes held high. harry stared at the creature, filled
with wonder, not at the strangeness, but at her inexplicable
familiarity. . . . They gazed at each other for several long moments
and then she turned and walked away" (366).I read this passage as
meaning that Snape's Patronus is the mate to Harry's, reflecting not
the relationship between Harry and Snape (which is still antagonistic
despite Snape's careful and secret protection of Harry) but the
relationship between their guardian spirits, his father and his
mother. The gentleness and exceptional beauty of Snape's Patronus does
not make it weak. It was Lily's sacrifice, not James's, that made him
the Boy Who Lived. "Moonbright and dazzling," her "burnished image
still imprinted on his retinas" after it disappears. "It obscured his
vision, brightening when he lowered his eyelids, disorienting him. Now
fear came. Her presence had meant safety" (367).

That's quite some Patronus, as Lupin says of Harry's in PoA. I think
that she would have held up a lot better than Hermione's otter in the
MoM, a fit companion to Harry's stag (and would have scared the
Dementors in PoA away had not the stag Patronus already done so).

Carol, tantalized by our glimpses of Snape's magical prowess and
wishing that he could somehow have lived

And Snape can do more than deliver messages with it. He uses it to
lead both Harry and Ron to the spot where he's hidden the Sword of
Gryffindor.