[HPforGrownups] Re: Rita - Luna and the Qubbler/Marietta

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 169654

Sistermagpie:

> Sure Harry generally tells the truth. He has no desire to let Ernie
think
> Malfoy's the heir on some vague idea it might cause trouble for
Malfoy. But
> nor is he on the lookout to make sure people don't accuse his enemies of
> things without proof. 

Charles:
And that puts him on the moral level of Rita how? Of course he isn't
running around defending everyone who gets wronged by lies or in any
other way. I've shown more than one way that he is *not* on the moral
level of Rita, and all that we've accomplished is to drag it back to
the polyjuice argument that we had last year. Is Harry Potter perfect?

Magpie:
Who on earth put Harry on the moral level of Rita to begin with? Or said
anything about him being perfect? The whole reason I responded to your
interpretation of CoS is that it seemed like you were making Harry too
perfect in a moment where he was being more funny than noble. I would think
the part that you quoted *from me* showed that I do not think Harry is Rita
Skeeter. That paragraph didn't slip out accidentally. I considered it an
actual part of Harry's character.

If we keep bouncing back and forth between extremes we're never going to
get anywhere close to canon. Harry is not Rita Skeeter. Neither is he the
"perfect" boy scout who rushes to defend the honor of his enemies against
unfounded accusations. (I also pointed out that Draco Malfoy was not
"defending" Harry when he said that Harry wasn't the Heir of Slytherin.) As
I explained, what I said was that Rita makes Harry and his friends angry by
printing stories that are slanted in ways that Harry doesn't like and
sometimes cause them actual trouble. The only place I even linked Harry and
Rita vaguely at all was to say that if there were another reporter
committed to the Order's cause who instead wrote stories to support
interpretations that helped them, I think she would be a good guy. I still
think this is true. I even gave a specific example of something like the
"true" House Elf story as far as Hermione was concerned, or an article that
said Hagrid was the best teacher ever rather than one everyone was afraid
of. I was talking about the press and how it works and what reporters do. I
didn't accuse Harry of anything.

I don't know or remember what Polyjuice argument you're referring to. It's
possible that if you explained it we'd have it all over again. Oh well.

Charles:
Real
people don't run around trying to defend the people who are making
life miserable for them. Real people also get disgusted when reporters
like Rita publish tripe about people, whether they are enemies or not.

Magpie:
Right and neither does Harry. 

Charles:
Let's turn this around. Show me some canon that shows Harry actively
supporting something like Rita. I really don't think you can, because
I don't think it is there.

Magpie:
I don't really want to turn it around, because it's unrecognizable to me at
this point. I don't think that would help.

Charles:
Charles, wondering why "innocent until proven guilty" never applies to
Harry in this group.

Magpie:
Since *I* made no accusations to Harry (I really don't think my speculation
that a reporter working for the Order could be a good guy is much of an
accusation),  I don't know. Though you yourself seemed to be leaning
towards "guilty until proven innocent" earlier in talking about CoS. But
maybe I'm wrong.

So regardless, let me try to drag this back to what I was actually saying.
We were talking about Rita. It was brought up that Rita deserved to be
blackmailed because she printed lies. I said that Rita didn't print lies,
exactly, but facts and insinuations to create the story she wanted--she
made Harry and his friends more angry sometimes with her use of truth than
outright lies. I also said that what Rita did many in the press actually
do--it's often how the press works (and blackmailing them is I believe
illegal). And that led for me to speculate--and I still hold to this based
on what I've seen of Harry's reactions to things--that if there was a
reporter committed to the Order agenda who printed articles that were
always helpful to Harry and the Order, using the same skills Rita uses for
her agenda, that he would be a good guy. It wasn't an attack on Harry.

If you wonder why Harry's considered guilty until proven innocent, I wonder
why so often claims that Harry's great because he's not perfect are so
often followed by offense at perceived criticism that suggests he's not
perfect. Or in this case, not even that. From what I actually thought I was
saying.


Carol:
thinking that Marietta, like Percy, is deluded rather than evil
and should be judged accordingly, especially given her youth"

Bruce:
It seems that SOME PEOPLE expect 'old heads on young shoulders' when it
comes to the Trio, but are willing to forgive other student's failings on
the grounds of youth.

Magpie:
Is that supposed to be directed at SOME PEOPLE on the group who will know
who they are? Should I know if it's me? Because it sounds like calling
somebody out.

Bruce:
In a closed community like a convent, prison, ship at sea, or boarding
school, no secret remains secret for long. That's Sociology 101.

Magpie:
Except for stuff like Harry fighting a basilisk in the school basement? I
seem to recall that wasn't known by most of the DA. (In itself an
orgnization that managed to be secret until Marietta told.) Or the fact
that Tom Riddle opened the CoS and not Hagrid? Or that Ginny Weasley was
strangling roosters? Or that the Marauders were Animagi running around with
a werewolf once a month. That's Harry Potter 101. The rumor mill grinds and
jams according to what needs to be known and what should be secret. 

Bruce:
Exactly; nobody ever died of acne. And Marietta deserved to have something
nasty happen to her. You don't rat out your friends. It just is not done.

Magpie:
Oh, so if nobody's dead it doesn't matter? Why all the fuss about Umbridge
then? Nobody ever died from having their hand cut, so what's the problem?
Sure Harry didn't deserve anything nasty to happen to him, but if it's
barely a big deal and all...

Oddly, in my school if there was somebody who ratted on their friends, and
somebody who marked somebody's face with potentially permenant pustules,
it's the second person who would be considered the psycho. It just wasn't
done.

Not that I can't understand the impulse to want to make Marietta suffer
with acne. I admit every time I read "it's only acne" it seems like
tempting some Acne God to take that as an invitation.

-m