[HPforGrownups] Prank and various responsibilities

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 169676

Dana:
The same goes for Sirius. Trick or no trick, Sirius did not influence 
Snape's reason's for going, even if Sirius would have played it on 
Snape's biggest weakness (for instance that he was to cowardly to 
go), then it was still Snape's decision to proof Sirius wrong. 
Sirius intentions had no influence on Snape wanting to know what 
Lupin was up to or wanting to know why Lupin was hidden behind a 
murderous tree (or whatever other reason Snape had for going) 
Snape was already tailing Lupin and he already wanted to know and 
just like Harry, Snape could already have found out all the 
information he wanted too, if he just had put the monthly 
disappearances of Lupin on a calendar and hold it next to a lunar 
chart. 

Magpie:
Sirius didn't have to "influence" Snape's reason for wanting to go. He was
intentionally *using* the reasons Snape already had to manipulate him. The
important part being that he was using it to put Snape into a dangerous
situation without Snape's knowledge. That's why it's a Prank. 

I think the more direct analogy for Hagrid is not whether Hagrid was
responsible for anything Harry did, but to ask about Quirrel. Was Quirrel
responsible for tempting Hagrid with a dragon's egg and getting him drunk
to get the information? Of course he was. He set out to get what he wanted
and took steps to make that happen--reasonable steps based on the
information he had about Hagrid's own weaknesses and desires. That Hagrid
fell for it does not make Quirrel not the one manipulating events to his
own desires. 

Snape does not blame the Marauders for his stupidity just by accusing them
of Pranking him (though I'm sure he takes all his anger at himself for
falling for it and projects it onto them). Just as Hagrid doesn't have to
blame Quirrel for his own stupdity to say that the guy tricked him. Hagrid
can be stupid without Quirrel becoming innocent. Snape being vengeful does
not make Sirius any different than what he is in that situation. 

Dana:
Both were saved from their own stupidity by 
others but Sirius's intentions had nothing to do with it 

Magpie:
Sirius' intentions had everything to do with it. His intentions directed
what Sirius did and did not tell to lure Snape into the passage using the
tools at Sirius' disposal.It wasn't Snape's stupidity he was using against
him, because Snape wasn't stupid so much as vengeful. Snape had every
reason to think he needed to be on his guard against MWPP, but he had no
reason whatsoever to think he was meeting a werewolf. It didn't require
Snape to be stupid to walk into the tunnel with a werewolf, because the
fear that Sirius had a werewolf waiting for him was a bit out of the bounds
of reason. Even James thought so, which is why he stopped the Prank. Snape
was indeed manipulated into doing something he did not want to do. That's
the nature of the entire Prank. Most Pranks.

Montavilla47:
"Of course Snape tried it" implies to me that Snape's desire to know
what was going on with the Marauders was so strong and so 
evident that his going into the tunnel was an obvious outcome of 
Sirius telling him how. 

Magpie:
Absolutely. Just as Remus could say "Harry was told Sirius was being
tortured at the MoM. Of course Harry went to save him." That doesn't
absolve Voldemort and Kreacher of any responsibility for the actions they
took to manipulate Harry. You can't play a Prank on somebody and then blame
them for falling for it as if the work you did arranging the Prank meant
nothing. Remus isn't blaming Snape with that sentence, he's blaming Sirius,
stressing that Sirius knew the result of his actions would be Snape
entering the tunnel.

Montavilla47:
By agreeing to provide an obstacle to the stone, Hagrid was 
agreeing to protect the secret of how to get beyond the 
obstacle. Too bad Dumbledore wasn't as clever as Hermione. 
He could have had Hagrid sign a list of teachers and, after 
Hagrid let the secret slip, pustules would appear on his face
spelling out the word, "Imbecile."

Magpie:
And Hagrid would totally have done it to himself, right? Yeah.

-m