On Children and the "Other" (was:Re: On the perfection of moral virtues)

[houyhnhnm102]

No: HPFGUIDX 169679

Pippin:

> I'm not sure what you mean by the spiral. Harry has 
> a tendency to think that bullies just get worse and 
> worse till they turn into killers, while the canon 
> facts show us something much more complicated.

houyhnhnm:

Nikkalmati recently pointed out that if Hermione 
hadn't failed to follow her good instinct with respect 
to Montague, the vanishing cabinet would very likely 
have been secured, Draco would not have had a means to 
get DEs into the castle, and Dumbledore would not have 
been killed, nor Bill maimed.  And Montague would never 
have been in the cabinet in the first place if the twins 
had not resorted to an ill thought out act of retaliation 
against Montague for his arrogance in taking points from 
them.  And the twins wouldn't have been provoked to 
retaliate if Montague hadn't arrogantly abused his 
authority.  So it doesn't even take a great bullying 
git to set off or further a chain of events that results 
in an evil act, just arrogance, or recklessness, or a 
moment of selfishness (or weakness) that quenches a good impulse.

Another recent discussion had to do with the scene 
between Snape and Lupin when Snape took Lupin his 
Wofsbane potion in PoA.  When I was re-reading that 
chapter it struck me that this was the beginning of 
an escalation of hostilities between Snape and Lupin.  
It is the first the reader sees anyway and it may have 
been the first eruption into the open of the tension 
between the two.  

Lupin was condescending toward Snape.  Snape, who 
always refuses to stay down when he is put down, 
responded with what struck me as a veiled threat.  
Lupin followed up by contriving to have the boggart 
turn into Snape dressed as an old woman.  Snape 
retaliated by assigning the werewolf essay when he 
took over Lupin's class.  And so on and so on.  To 
me, this escalation of hostility was a chain of 
events which culminated in both men making poor 
decisions at a critical moment, leading to Lupin 
and Sirius almost becoming killers, allowing 
Pettigrew to escape, and ultimately allowing 
Voldemort to return to power.

And of course, the hostility between adult Snape and 
Lupin  was just a present day continuence of an old 
animosity of which we have only seen a snapshot (or 
rather movie clip) and heard little bits of contradictory 
hearsay.  We do know, however that the escalating 
hostility between Snape and Marauders almost led to 
Snape's death.  It could very well have been the tipping 
point that sent him over to Dark side, and if Snape had 
not gone over to the Dark side, Voldemort would never 
have heard the Prophecy and James and Lily Potter would 
still be alive.

That is what I meant by saying that unchecked bullying 
along with a host of other small sins of commission or 
omission leads to evil acts.  I didn't mean that bullies 
turn into killers.  So I think I was really in agreement with you.

There is still a question for me of how much congruence 
there is between what Rowling tells and what she shows.  
Is she a Sirius Black, who can talk a good moral game, 
but can't live up to her talk (or make her story live 
up to it)?  This is what makes me uncomfortable and I 
think it is probably what makes lizzyben and Betsy 
uncomfortable (if I make make so bold).  I haven't 
seen any answer to that question on hpfgu that completely 
sets my mind at ease, so I guess all I can do is wait and see.

A good person is one who refrains from killing.  But Lupin 
and Sirius would have been killers if Harry hadn't stopped 
them.  Fred and George could have been Montague's killers.  
All four only escaped becoming killers because they were 
lucky.  So a good person is one who is lucky.  But Rowling 
has stated that she doesn't believe in luck.  So is she 
going to make it all come right in the end or is she going 
to take her billions and laugh all the way to the bank.

I'm just getting nervous.  (And the publication date comes 
right in the middle of a three week intensive graduate 
course I'm taking this summer. I can already feel my mind 
being torn two ways.)