Prank and various responsibilities WAS: Re: Marietta

[puduhepa98 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 169695

 

>Dana:
>snip>
>After OotP the  marauders bullying Snape tainted many people's 
impression of the prank but  they left out the notion that the 
werewolf topic was part of the DADA exams.  And when you then look 
back at what Lupin states that Snape was interested  in where Lupin 
went *every* month and that Snape saw Lupin being brought to  the 
willow by Madam Pomfrey one night, it should invoke the conclusion  
that Sirius had nothing to do with Snape willingly going to the 
willow,  he just gave Snape information to get passed the willow. It 
is actually  irrelevant what reason either Sirius or Snape had because 
it was Snape's own  choice to go. Snape disregarded every warning sign 
that he came across and  went anyway but suddenly it is Sirius fault 
if he had gotten killed.  

<snip>clearly DD's decision to make Snape promise not to tell  gives a 
totally different indication on what he thought about the  
responsibilities each person had in the events of that night. 

Sirius  responsibility lies with Lupin, he betrayed Lupin with telling 
Snape the  secret on how to get passed the willow and I believe he 
paid dearly for it  when Lupin was left out of the SK switch plan and 
he lost Harry because of  it because DD believed he indeed was the 
Potters secret keeper and it made  DD chose to place Harry with the 
Dursley's instead of giving Sirius a chance  to raise Harry as the 
Potters intended it to be. <snip>.  

>Dana
I never said Snape deserved to die because of the choice he  made 
about going after Lupin but it would nevertheless have been his own  
fault if it had happened and James prevented the worst outcome for 
both  Snape's own choice and Lupin unwilling participation in it. The 
view of  Snape not having any responsibility in what happened or could 
have happened  is a fan thing because they like Snape and hate the 
marauders for bullying  Snape, it is not a canon thing because if you 
would actually look at this  with an open mind then it is not hard to 
see that Snape made the choices he  made because he wanted it. 

Snape was not a 3 year old kid that was lured  to a specific place 
with the promise he would find candy there. He was 16  years old and 
he did not only have Sirius information that could have  directed his 
choices but he chose to disregard them anyway and go after  Lupin. If 
it was just curiosity then so be it but I doubt that it was just  
because Snape wanting to know what Lupin was up to there. Because 
Snape  could have gotten that information by other means then just go 
have a look.  Putting Lupin's monthly disappearances next to a lunar 
chart would have done  the trick without ever putting himself into 
harms way. Sirius responsibility  would not have been in Snape's dead 
but Lupin's unwillingly participation in  it because Sirius thought it 
amusing to tell Snape the secret how the get  passed the willow. If 
Snape never had gone there then Sirius still betrayed  Lupin. 

Nikkalmati
 
I certainly agree with you that Sirius betrayed his  friend Lupin and was 
disloyal to him because if Snape had been hurt Lupin would  have been exposed and 
expelled; if Snape had been killed, Lupin might have ended  up in Azkaban.  I 
wonder that Lupin has been able to forgive Sirius ( if he  has)! <eg>
 
Even worse, if Snape knew he would be facing a werewolf,  he would have been 
prepared and Lupin risked being killed.  If Lupin had  attacked Snape, Snape 
would have been within his rights to kill him, if he were  able.  Are we 
supposed to believe Sirius was that thoughtless?  It  appears so.  I also think one 
reason Snape wanted the kids to know the  symptoms of a werewolf was that he 
had missed it himself all those years  ago.
 
Nikkalmati
 
>lealess
>To some extent, I agree that  continued exposure to a werewolf may have
lessened Black's appreciation of  the danger Lupin posed to others. On
the other hand, he *was* a serious  danger, as is drinking and driving.
Teenagers in our society can pay a  penalty for engaging in dangerous
behavior and posing a threat or actually  harming another. Given that,
and considering the potentially very great harm  possible in the Prank,
I wonder how Sirius Black avoided expulsion, and why  Snape presumably
agreed to keep Lupin's secret. What in the world was  Dumbledore doing?

I hope this is explained in  DH.

>Alla
>Right, now back to Prank. I had never been especially  surprised why 
Sirius avoided expulsion just as I was always sure that he was  
punished appropriately. Hogwarts after all has plenty of nasty  
punishments and the act that Snape thinks expulsion is the only one 
that  should have been given, does not make that true IMO.

>That in fact and  the fact that Snape agreed to keep Lupin secret 
always indicated to me that  Snape IS complicit in prank night on more 
serious level.

>I just  do not see Dumbledore threatening Snape unless Snape has 
something to fret  about.

Speculating as always about prank.

Nikkalmati
 
There are a number of anomalies in the Prank  story.  One is why didn't a 
smart boy like Snape know Lupin was a  werewolf?  Another is who was involved?  
Was Lupin involved?  I  suspect not.  Did James know and get cold feet (or 
figure out who was  really going to pay the price of exposure, Lupin), like Snape 
believes?   Another is what happened to the Marauders afterwards.  I think we 
are  assuming DD found out about the Prank right away, but maybe he didn't.  
DD  and SS didn't find out the Marauders were Animagi and I can't see how that 
would  not come out.  Maybe after he pulled Snape out of the tunnel James made 
 Snape promise not to tell DD about the Prank for some reason, possibly in 
return  for saving him.  Maybe DD didn't hear the story until Snape came back to 
 him from LV. James gave no sign in school he had changed his mind about  
Snape or vise versa. Certainly, James did not stop hexing Snape,  but he did it 
only where Lily could not see.  (Lily must not have been  to angry at Snape for 
calling her a Mudblood or she would not have  cared about James hexing Snape 
in 7th year).  I would also wonder why  Snape would take Sirius' word for 
anything.  Did Sirius arrange for Snape  to "accidentally" overhear him talking 
about how to get past the WW?  Did  Snape suspect the Marauders of joining Lupin 
or why would Snape believe Sirius  knew about how to get past the WW?
 
Nikkalmati (who doubts James rescued Snape in his Prongs  avatar, but ran 
into the tunnel as just James. Otherwise, it was not much of an  heroic feat)
 

>colebiancardi: 
><snip >
> I  think there is something more, something deeply personal,
something like a  younger brother(Regulus!something like a  younger 
(IMHO) with Snape  that causes Sirius to loathe Snape so much. Sure,
Sirius calls his brother  dim, but other than that, Sirius doesn't
speak that ill of
> his late  brother. 

Nikkalmati
 
Could be, we don't know that Sirius wouldn't both be  jealous of his brother 
and blame Snape for leading him astray. Sirius isn't  known for his clear 
thinking.   I suggested in another post that Snape  may be a Black through his 
mother's maternal line.  In that case, the roots  of the Sirius/Snape hatred 
could go back generations and the boys may have been  enemies before they came to 
Hogwarts.
 
Nikkalmati
 






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