Snape and Malfoy (Narcissa)/Why we'll get no further revelelations that Snap

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 169785

> Magpie:
> True, but there again I think we undercut what we have if it turns 
> out it was always Snape driving his own hate. What makes it 
> compelling and understandable for me so far--and for Harry too, a 
> little--is that it's not just Snape being a mean, vindictive person 
> and hurting himself with his own hate. He *is* doing that, but his 
> hatred is also something Harry can understand, because Harry, too, 
> feels hatred. Not because he constantly hates people for no reason, 
> but because he feels frustrated and rejected and put upon. That's 
> why when he watched the Pensieve sequence he couldn't make himself 
> automatically jump into James' pov. He saw an "innocent" (which he 
> doesn't usually think of Snape as) being harassed. I think it's 
> very important that Snape's accusations against James are real.


Jen:  Just to be clear, I'm not one proposing that Snape wanted to 
kill Lupin or anything I would put in the category of Evil!Snape. 
That's not how I read Snape's motivation or personality thus far even 
without much to go on.  In many ways he comes across as being like 
Harry as a boy, too curious for his own good, and the person you 
describe above - frustrated, harassed, rejected.  I just take that in 
a different direction as far as what Harry will learn from adult 
Snape.  The problem now for Harry as I see it is he gives Snape more 
power than Snape actually has and doesn't recognize the reality of 
the events he's blaming Snape for, a very similar situation to what 
possibly transpired for Snape with the Marauders and continues into 
present day. 

For instance, Sirius going to the MOM.  Harry wants to pin the blame 
for that on Snape.  Whether Snape had more to do with that event - or 
if taunting was the extent of it - what Harry is overlooking is the 
more important aspect that loyalty and love took Sirius to the DOM to 
protect Harry.  Whatever hatred of Snape was incited inside Sirius by 
having to work with him again, it's pretty clear in the story that 
Sirius' motivation has always been love and loyalty for James and 
trying to make good on his second chance with Harry.  That overrides 
hating Snape as a priority and always did. 

Contrast Harry maybe accepting that truth in DH with what transpired 
for Snape in the Shack.  Snape is bent on getting Sirius caught for 
whatever motivation.  When he enters the Shack there's an opportunity 
to learn the truth of what happened but instead what does he do?  He 
insists on believing his own truth, nurturing his anger that James 
never appreciated him for trying to save his life and that Sirius is 
a murderer and needs to be captured.  He still hasn't learned to see 
a situation with new eyes, something I'm certain Harry will learn in 
the end and thus move past Snape in the process.  

Another example is Dumbledore's death.  Whatever motivated Snape to 
take the Unbreakable, and perhaps it was concern for Draco or a sense 
of loyalty to Narcissa, the most important thing Harry can learn 
about the tower imo is that Dumbledore's immense love and desire to 
protect Harry and Draco was more important than whatever caused Snape 
to be in that position.  Snape didn't *make* something happen to 
Dumbledore if Dumbledore didn't choose for that to happen (I'm not 
saying this exonerates Snape for his own actions if he really did 
cast an AK, just saying what seems the more important insight for 
Harry to take away to guide his own path for the defeat of 
Voldemort.)  

Contrast Harry opening his eyes to this truth eventually with Snape's 
run across the grounds.  The most important moment in the sequence 
appears to be Snape making sure Harry knows a truth that Snape 
vehemently believes: that he was once the Half-Blood Prince, he was 
*somebody* with ideas, cleverness & brains, and the Marauders stole 
from him and used his own spells against him just as Harry is doing.  
Why, why was that so crucial in that moment with everything that's 
transpired?  Snape appears unable to see the truth, that he lost 
everything because of *himself* and his choices, not because of 
anything the Marauders did or didn't do all those years ago. (All imo 
of course.) 

As Harry realizes this truth about Snape, he can also start to see 
how important it is not to shift guilt and blame for his very real 
actions.  I've always liked the idea presented at various times on 
this list that as Harry grows he is doing what every young man 
strives to do developmentally, at least in their own minds, of 
integrating and bypassing their father figures.  Snape does represent 
the critical parent to Dumbledore's lenient one.  

> Jen:
> So far Snape's claims about his own innocence and the Marauders'
> guilt haven't made a dent in Harry's hatred. Harry paused to worry
> about his own father after the Pensieve scene but was reassured when
> he learned from Sirius and Lupin that yes, life marched on and James
> moved with it. 
> 
> Magpie:
> Actually, I disagree. They have made a dent. Harry's pausing to 
> worry and try to rationalize what he saw in the Pensieve was 
> important--it was the only time he's ever done that for Snape. 
> Every doubt Harry has about the Marauders inspires him to be a
> different man himself. I think the little dents, those moments 
> where Harry has twinges of feeling something he doesn't want to 
> feel, whether it's sympathy for Snape or conscience about Malfoy,
> are the only hints we've got to go on for where personal Harry-
> revelations might be lurking.

Jen:  I don't believe Harry was doing that for Snape though.  He was 
doing that to reconcile a side to his father he didn't believe 
existed and when he saw proof, he actually took it in and it 
concerned him.  He didn't reject the information coming in that 
caused cognitive dissonance for him as Snape habitually does.  
Instead he held it, examined it, felt bad about it and tried to do 
something to resolve the apprehension he felt.  And the conclusion he 
came to was a pretty mature thing, that his father wasn't perfect.  
*And* I think it will turn out to be important Harry has this ability 
because my expectation is it's the same thing Lily was able to do to 
reconcile falling in love with someone who had behavior that bothered 
her at times or if she was friendly with Snape, to eventually make 
peace with the 'Mudblood' comment directed her way.  So Snape 
provided the raw materials with his memory, yes, but Harry is the one 
who dealt with what he saw, reconciled it and moved on.  That's 
behavior adult Snape hasn't exhibited yet as I read him.

Magpie:
> So to me it seems like what we're not going to get either way is a 
> total revision of Snape. We can't, because we've already been given 
> two versions that are different. We've seen Snape as a vindictive 
> bully. We've seen him as a victim. What Harry's been unable to do 
> is *reconcile* the two, and that, I think, is what he's going to get
> in DH.

Jen:  I definitely agree and once again just take it to a different 
place.  Reconciling Snape is important because it takes away some of 
the power Harry sees Snape holding over him right now and reduces 
Snape down to human level again. Whatever actions Snape may prove to 
have taken in the course of his life, he isn't almighty, the person 
behind the scenes making sure everyone Snape hates and Harry loves is 
dead.  Snape's choices appear to have made him a bitter and resentful 
person who is alone for all intents and purposes now.  If anything I 
could see the pathos of Snape being the thing that combines with 
other factors to allow Harry to see him in a new way.

Magpie:
> The Snape with whom Harry *does* identify happily is the HBP, the 
> kid who's funny and snarky and rebellious and maybe a little 
> arrogant. That's the guy I think he needs to reconcile with real 
> Snape and through whom he'll gain understanding about both of them. 
> That's the guy that showed Harry could go down the same path, after 
> all, when he reached for the Prince's wish-fulfillment spell "for 
> enemies" and wound up doing something he didn't mean to do. "Such
> Dark Magic, Potter!"

Jen: Obviously I'm biased in seeing Snape's losses as a sad thing and 
that his life needs to be a cautionary tale for Harry more than 
anything else.  It's a possibility for the story because what appears 
most crucial for Harry to get in DH is how golden it is that love 
protects him from Voldemort in a way *no* one else is protected, NO 
one.  The people Harry has seen fight Voldemort and die because of 
it, the people who succumb to his 'lure of power' and live the life 
of DEs, those who were once drawn in and attempt to leave - NONE of 
them have the advantage Harry has and he's squandering it with his 
petty hatred of Snape.  It seems clear something will transpire to 
allow Harry to rise above this hatred and I recognize many of us see 
this happening in different ways while agreeing it's a probably 
outcome of the Harry-Snape dynamic.

Magpie:
<snip>
> That's the backstory, I think--interesting, isn't it, that Harry
> gets all that before he "meets" Snape at his own age, finally, in
> his sixth year? Any revelations about Snape being victimized by
> MWPP or doing bad things to them are at this point, imo, pointless 
> because nothing will top the Pensieve or Snape being the 
> eavesdropper for examples of sheer bad acts on both sides. 

Jen:  There's no need to belabor the point, no.  There is a need to 
understand how the boy who was the Half-Blood Prince became a DE 
however.  What we saw in the Pensieve, the stories we've heard so 
far, don't give me any sense of what caused that progression.  He's 
not a Draco, raised in a family with a dad who's a DE and the path is 
laid out for him to accept or reject.  There are no obvious markers 
in his history for being lured to Voldemort like Regulus was, where 
his family saw value in his joining up at first.  What turned Snape 
on that path is important and it may involve some darkness or it may 
not.  I'm just open to that possibility if it's presented.

Jen