What Harry "knows", Was Why we'll get no further revelations Snape was Evil

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 169798

<Snipping huge portions of Carol's post of which I agree.)

> Carol:
Harry's hatred for Snape is the protagonist's view of
> and reaction to another important character, and since this is Harry's
> story, not snape's, it's Harry's view that has to change (or, less
> interestingly, be validated). And as the protagonist in a
> Bildungsroman, Harry has to mature, to learn valuable lessons about
> himself--not that he's a wizard or the chosen One but who he is as a
> person, what his strengths and weaknesses are, and, if the themes of
> the book are what I think they are, how to show true mercy (different
> from sparing Wormtail just to turn him over to the Dementors), how to
> forgive those who have trespassed against him. (JKR is a Christian,
> after all, and Harry needs to learn and apply the lesson that DD
> taught him on the tower.) I don't mean the inhuman multiple-murderer,
> sociopath and megalomaniac Voldemort, who has only one-seventh of a
> human soul. I mean the very human Snape, who for all his faults has
> been protecting Harry in various ways for seven books.

wynnleaf
I agree.  Yes, many readers have lots of questions.  And many readers
either do or don't agree with Harry's opinions and may need to be
convinced in various directions.  But by and large, readers follow
Harry.  If, in the *end,* Harry sees certain things as true, it's
likely that the reader will realize that this is what JKR wants *us*
to see as well -- she doesn't have to have separate revelations just
to convince the reader.

For instance, although many think Snape is DDM, that's not what we're
left with at the end of HBP.  We DDM!Snape proponents are expecting
revelations in DH to *change* the status of what Harry knows about
Snape at the end of HBP.  If Snape is really evil, JKR doesn't need to
have a set of revelations just to convince us he's really evil.  All
she needs to do is leave Snape as he stands at the end of HBP, with no
added revelations to change Harry's opinion, and none to give us
DDM!Snape readers any confirmation that Snape isn't serving Voldemort.
   Any appearance of having been DDM can simply be chalked up under
the heading of "Things Snape did to Keep his Cover."  

JKR reveals things to readers primarily *through* Harry.  As was
already pointed out, the Spinners End chapter really revealed almost
nothing at all, because practically everything Snape said in it could
be taken as truth, lies, twisted truth, or twisted lies, all depending
on where Snape's loyalties were and his intentions.  The only real
revelation we got was that Snape took an Unbreakable Vow, and the only
part of the Vow we could be sure we understood was the part about
protecting Draco, since we weren't even given confirmation that either
Snape knew what the task was, or even that the task was to kill
Dumbledore.  So the only true revelation *did* in fact move the plot
very strongly *and* that revelation was also given to Harry, the
protagonist, who is the primary character for whom revelations are
ultimately meant.  In other words the only real revelation was Snape's
taking the Vow, which Snape's character then inadvertently passed
along to the prime recipient of revelations, Harry.

> > Neri:
> > You seem to assume that the only readers that are really interested
> in Snape's motives are DDM!Snapers, and the rest of us don't care
> about them and will just be happy to find out that he's generally
> Evil. Not so. We too have spent a lot of time analyzing Snape, we too
> have contributed our humble share towards of the above 10,000
> theories, and we too need our questions answered. Why did he make the
> Unbreakable Vow? Why did he save Dumbledore in the beginning of the
> year and killed him in its end? Why does it appear that he didn't plan
> on killing Dumbledore at that time and was forced to it by Draco's
> unexpected action? What exactly was his game as a 
> double-triple-quadruple agent during all these years? What was he
> trying to achieve during the Occlumency lessons? During the MoM
> battle? What are exactly his connections with the Malfoys? Why did he
> care about what happen to the Potters so much that he warned Dumbledore?

wynnleaf
JKR's fans have loads of questions, many of which will not be answered
in the books -- she's even said that.  High interest in a particular
point isn't what will make JKR include the answers.  The revelations
are for the benefit of the story's protagonist.  But further, the
reasons we readers *have* these pressing questions about Snape is
because JKR has really built the story so that we'd be in part focused
on that.  She doesn't want us focused on it just as some sort of
intellectual exercise.  The questions that JKR has made clear are
important will be important because finding out the answers will drive
the plot and affect Harry.

> > 
> Neri:
> > The answer "Snape was just generally Evil" is far from being
> sufficient here and JKR knows it.

wynnleaf
The reason it's not sufficient and we all know it is probably because
it's not the way JKR has been planning it out.  We all "know it"
because we can sense that just being evil doesn't fit how Snape has
acted.  Which of course works perfectly if JKR hasn't written Evil!Snape.


wynnleaf
And here's the thing Carol pointed out that is sooo cool.

>Carol: 
> There's really no point in concealing information about Snape and his
> motives if he's already evil. Harry "knows" that. (And anyone who
> wants a red flag to alert them to the presence of the unreliable
> narrator, meaning Harry's perception of anyone or anything, not just
> of Snape, being wrong, can just watch for the phrase "Harry knew." Or
> Harry's promise to himself never to do something again, like his
> promise never to interfere in other people's business or spy on anyone
> again back in SS/PS. "He would never forgive Snape. Never!" is a
> bright red flag of the same sort waved in the reader's face.)

wynnleaf
Absolutely correct!  I started noticing this over the thing in OOTP of
"He would never forgive Snape.  Never!"  If ever there was a promise
that wouldn't come true, that just was obvious.  Writers often use
this sort of comment on the part of a character as a kind of "set up"
for that character to be proven wrong.  And clearly JKR has set up
Harry several times with having Harry think he "knows" something or is
"sure" of something, only to discover it just wasn't so, or didn't happen.

I would love to see a list of all of these in the series.  Has anyone
ever done that?  It's basically what "Harry knew" or what Harry knew
he'd "never" do, or what Harry was "sure" of. 

I had forgotten the promises to himself to not interfere in other
people's business or spy on anyone.  We have confirmation that JKR was
setting him up with those thoughts.

There's the one in OOTP in the Occlumency chapter where Harry thinks
that whatever else, it wouldn't ever be him that would lure Sirius out
of #12 Grimmauld Place.  Another one where we have confirmed that
Harry was wrong.

Then at the end of OOTP when Harry knows he'll never forgive Snape.

And at the end of HBP in The Phoenix Lament, Harry believes he "knows"
that Fawkes is gone for good, just like Dumbledore.  

Another that is possibly a similar thing is in OOTP, when Harry saw
the memory of Snape's where the small boy is crying and the woman is
cowering from the man with the hooked nose.  Harry reflects later on
this incident, in the same manner as some of his other reflections
where he thinks he "knows" something or is "sure" of something.  "He
was sure he had just broken into Snape's memories, that he had just
seen scenes from Snape's childhood, and it was unnerving to think that
the crying little boy who watched his parents shouting was actually
standing in front of him with such loathing in his eye..."  The "he
was sure" part struck me as a possible time where Harry sees memories
and is simply "sure" that he's got it all figured out, and we readers
tend to assume he's correct.  I don't know if this really fits the
pattern or not.

Are there any more?

wynnleaf, thinking that JKR writing that Harry "knows" something or is
"sure" of something is a signal to us that Harry will be proven wrong.