What Harry "knows", Was Why we'll get no further revelations Snape was Evil

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 169821


Dana:

You all know it (well DDM!Snapers that is) and therefore you all will
be wrong because it will be the expected way for JKR to write Snape.
Many Snape fans are expecting JKR to turn HBP around because Snape
can't be ESE but that isn't much of a revelation either because Snape
was never before HBP portrait as ESE so turning it around in DH will
just be ever so lame.

Wynnleaf
I think this is a common misconception repeatedly coming up as 
regards revelations.  JKR writes the books for herself and also with 
her readers in mind.  But what happens in the books is to move the 
plot and affect the characters.  Revelations may certainly affect 
the readers, but the primary purpose is to affect the protagonist.  
Saying that "Many Snape fans are expecting JKR to turn HBP around 
because Snape can't be ESE but that isn't much of a revelation 
either because Snape was never before HBP portrait as ESE so turning 
it around in DH will just be ever so lame" is missing the point.  
Whatever revelation JKR builds in isn't solely put in just to get 
the reader to think one thing and then later think another.  It's 
not just some parlor trick or riddle or whatever.  JKR is trying to 
move *plot* and change *characters* first and foremost.  That's her 
work as a writer -- not just to create gimicks.  Yes, she likes to 
misdirect readers, but she does that in general by misdirecting her 
protagonist and letting the reader assume the protagonist has it 
right.  

Harry has *always* hated Snape and has distrusted him throughout the 
series.  Revelations that just reinforce what Harry already thinks 
don't much move the plot and certainly don't move Harry personally.  
If you think about it, practically every revelation in the series 
has been a revelation to *Harry* because he's the one who has to 
have his thoughts and actions affected by the revelation.

Remember, revelations are *first* for the characters, and only 
secondarily for the readers as they follow the characters thoughts 
and actions.

In any case, fans are quite divided about Snape being good or evil 
or out-for-himself.  Even if JKR wanted to choose one of those 
solutions simply to surprise her readers, she'd have a problem 
because any of those three answers would only surprise a portion of 
the fans.  There are plenty of people who will be thoroughly shocked 
if Snape turns out DDM, after all.  And for those of us who read and 
discuss the theories all the time, perhaps *none* of the options 
will actually "surprise" us.

The point is to have a revelation for Harry.  To the extent that the 
reader is following Harry's viewpoint, the reader is also surprised, 
and since the majority of readers *do* appear to follow Harry's 
viewpoint in most cases of the plot, revelations will tend to 
surprise readers.

colebiancardi:
Now, regardless if Snape is DDM (which I believe 99.99999%) or ESE
(the rest of the percentage), we would need the revelation of what 
the remorseful story was that he told DD & why DD trusted him so 
much. I would also like, but it is not necessary, the reason why 
Snape became a DE. And how Snape managed to hookwink either DD or 
LV, depending on the flavor he is. If Snape is DDM, I would like, 
although it is not necessary, the reason why he took the UV.

wynnleaf
But *why*, if Snape is ESE, would "we would need the revelation of 
what the remorseful story was that he told DD & why DD trusted him 
so much?"  JKR isn't writing any revelations just because fans 
express a "need to know."  Hey, there's loads of stuff many of us 
die-hard fans think we just desperately "need to know."  That's not 
the point.  The point is what *Harry* needs to know.  If Harry is 
right, and Snape is ESE, why does Harry need to know what the 
remorseful story was that Snape told Dumbledore, or why exactly 
Dumbledore trusted Snape?  If Harry is correct, and Snape's remorse 
was not honest, and Dumbledore's trust was completely misplaced, why 
does Harry need to know the details?  The only reason (from a 
literary perspective) that Harry needs further details about these 
matters is if those revelations will somehow *change* how he thinks, 
acts, etc., or otherwise drive the plot.  

Alla:

Um, how is it a tiny change if Harry will go from hating Snape to 
forgiving him? And I think it will be much more difficult for Harry 
to forgive Snape knowing that he is evil or OFH or whoever as long 
as 
he, you know, did not kill Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders.

I mean if Snape is DD!M, sure Harry will go through reevaluation of 
his views, but if Snape is not completely DD!M, but at least a 
little 
bit grey in a sense that responsibility for murder is his and his 
only, but the motivations are something that Harry will be able to 
understand, I think it will be difficult for Harry to forgive Snape, 
but he will still do it.

wynnleaf
I agree that Harry might not find out something completely clearcut 
like Snape always being completely DDM, and yet Harry could still 
forgive Snape.  But whatever revelations are provided for Harry, 
there will have to be some sort of *impetus* for Harry to do 
something different than he would have done without the 
revelations.  So, if for instance Harry forgives Snape, somehow 
whatever revelations come along would need to provide an impetus for 
that, because at the end of OOTP continuing through HBP, Harry is 
sure that he will *never* forgive Snape.

By the way, on the "what Harry knows" aspect, I was specifically 
talking about narrated comments throughout the series in which Harry 
is reflecting on something that is *not* a fact, but he is 
feeling "sure" or that he "knows" a particular thing primarily 
through some sort of gut feeling.  Often it's that he'll "never" do 
something.  When I said that those portions of the text may be 
signals that Harry is in fact being set up to be wrong, I was 
specifically referring to those particular kinds of narrative bits --
 not just anything in general that Harry feels or knows.

If anyone can recall any others than the one I listed, it would be 
very interesting to see them.

So far, I've got:

Harry thinking he'll never  eavesdrop again or pry into other 
people's business. (PS/SS I think)

Harry thinking he'll "never" do anything to lure Sirius out of 
Grimmauld Place. OOTP, Occlumency

Harry thinking he'll "never" forgive Snape.  OOTP (last chapters?)

Harry being "sure" Fawkes, like Dumbledore, is gone for good. (HBP, 
Phoenix Lament)

And perhaps, in OOTP Harry being "sure" he'd seen the memories of 
Snape as a child and Snape's parents in the memories.  (OOTP, a 
later occlumency lesson, can't recall chapter)

I feel certain that there are more.  I'd love to see some more from 
earlier in the books where we've got confirmation that Harry really 
was set up by JKR to be wrong.  But remember, I'm specifically 
talking about a particular kind of wording that the writer uses.  
Harry is thinking about something he's seen or done previously and 
thinking about what he believes he's "sure" of, or what he thinks 
will "never" happen.

wynnleaf