What Harry "knows", Was Why we'll get no further revelations Snape was Evil

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 169849

Dana:
<snip>
> DD did explain the reason for Snape's return in HBP when he
specifically states he believed that it was Snape's greatest regret
and the reason that he returned <snip>. Harry's point of view has
nothing to do with it because it does not change what DD said, we
witnessed what DD said. Snape might not have lied at all he might
truly have had remorse about HOW LV interpreted the prophecy because
he still had that annoying debt. So no additional hoodwinking
neccessary and to be on LV's side he doesn't have to believe in LV
himself just not double cross him openly for him to find out and
because Snape does not have a deathwish being loyal to LV doesn't take
much effort just make sure he has not reason to kill you is all it
takes.  

Carol responds:

Well, yes. But what DD was still concealing as of the end of HBP is
his "ironclad" reason for trusting Snape, which is not what Harry
presents it to be in the hospital wing and which is not the same as
Snape's reason for returning to our side. 

We *know* how Snape hoodwinked Voldemort, assuming he's DDM. He used
his superb Occlumency to lie to him without detection. What we don't
know is what he said to Dumbledore to "hoodwink" him, *if* that's what
he did. And revealing how LV interpreted the Prophecy (informing DD
that he's specifically targeting the Potters) doesn't sound like
hoodwinking to me. (Life debt or no life debt, that can't be
interpreted as loyalty to Voldemort.) But that *isn't* the reason that
Snape trusts Snape "completely," which we still don't know. 

So Harry's pov does have everything to do with it. We still know only
what he knows, and we also see him accidentally distorting what DD has
told him to fit his view of the facts. He tells everyone present that
DD's "ironclad" reason for trusting Snape was Snape's remorse over the
Potters' deaths:

Tonks says that she'd love to know what convinced DD to trust Snape,
and Harry says "I know!" They all turn to him and he adds,"Snape
passed Voldemort information that made Voldemort hunt down my Mum and
dad. Then Snape told Dumbledore that he hadn't realized what he was
doing, he was really sorry he'd done it, sorry that they were dead"
(HBP Am. ed. 616).


Harry's version is false on at least two counts, setting aside that
Snape could not have known that the information would lead to the
Potters' deaths when he passed it to Voldemort because he could not
possibly have known whom the Prophecy referred to. More important, it
*isn't* the reason for DD's trust in Snape (which we still don't
know), and Snape came to DD with his tale of remorse and began spying
for DD "at great personal risk" *before* Godric's Hollow. His remorse
came from Voldemort's interpretation of the Prophecy, not from the
deaths themselves, and probably predates the deaths by some months or
Snape could not have spied for DD "at great personal risk."

Harry knows from DD's explanation after his first excursion into DD's
Pensieve in GoF that Snape's return to "our side" predates GH *and* he
knows that DD has just refused, only hours before, to explain why he
"trust[s] Severus Snape completely," but he has conveniently and
understandably forgotten this distinction and these details when he
presents his version of events to his friends in the hospital wing. I
don't know about you, but I think that many readers were jolted by
Harry's jumbling of the facts here and viewed it as a signal that
Harry will be corrected later. (Either that or JKR is confused herself
and I don't think that's the case.)

Dana: 
> In GoF DD specifically states that he believed that Snape was never
guilty of DE activity just like Ludo Bagman. <snip>

Carol: 

Actually, Dumbledore doesn't say that he never believed that Snape was
"guilty of DE activity." (He'd be pretty naive to believe that
considering that he knows that Snape was the eavesdropper. and it
would be difficult for Snape to spy on LV--or return to him at the end
of GoF on DD's orders--if he hadn't been a Death Eater.) Nor does he,
for that matter, excuse Ludo Bagman of passing information to DEs.
Ludo himself admits doing so, but not knowing that "old Rookwood" was
a DE.

What DD says in the Pensieve regarding Snape is, "Severus Snape was
indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined our side before Lord
Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk. He
is now no more a Death Eater than I am" (GoF Am. ed. 390-91).

Harry wonders after his return whether Bagman has been involved with
the DEs since, though he only manages to say, "Er, Mr. Bagman?" DD
responds that Bagman "has never been accused of Dark activity since"
(which, of course, gives us no indication of DD's real view of Bagman).

Then Harry wonders about snape, whose face rises out of the Pensieve
at exactly that moment, and DD says, "No more has Professor Snape."
that response in itself merely indicates that Snape, like Bagman,
hasn't been *accused* of being involved with Dark wizards since that
time (but, of course, we've already heard his testimony in the
Pensieve, as has Harry). But Harry isn't satisfied and asks, "What
made you think he'd really stopped supporting Voldemort, Professor?"

And Harry gets even more of a nonresponse than he gets in HBP, where
DD at least hesitates and considers telling him the truth. Here, he
says, "That Harry, is a matter between Professor Snape and myself" (604).

At any rate, DD is not a "stupid old man" who believes that neither
Snape nor Bagman was ever involved with Death Eaters. And ift would be
rather stupid of Snape to reveal his Dark Mark infront of him and
report on its status in GoF if he did.

Carol, who hopes that Harry gets his facts straight in DH, whatever
additional information is revealed  
>