Narrative technique and the SK switch (Was: Dumbledore's letters to Petunia )

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 170017

Jen wrote:

>  Thank you for clearing up my mistake there, Carol.  From the 
information in your post, I finally understand all the different 
types of narrators and resultant povs for relevant chapters in the
series and can look for those occurrences in DH.

Carol responds:
You're welcome. I could have included omniscient narrators, but JKR
doesn't use them, thank goodness, but as long as were talking about
all the different types, I thought I'd throw them in. (To explain the
"thank goodness" part, I think it's confusing when an author jumps
from one mind to another. A consistent point of view, even if it's
occasionally inaccurate, has distinct advantages, especially if it's
the protagonist's.)
> 
Jen:
> I wonder, is there any chance JKR will open Privet Dr. from
Petunia's pov, sort of a nice symmetry with book 1, or will Petunia's
information only come from conversations with Harry?  I'd love to 
hear from inside her head exactly what she thought of Lily and how 
she now sees Harry.  And as a total aside, any chance we'll *ever* 
get inside Snape's head??  He's another character I'd like to hear 
from directly (and to paraphrase Fred, 'don't we all.' <g>)
> 
Carol responds:

I don't think that will happen, simply because JKR generally deviates
from Harry's pov when he's absent or too young to have a pov. She does
occasionally slip outside it to show him asleep or to show Hermione
setting Snape's robes on fire (she also describes a dream he doesn't
remember; mentions that, unknown to Harry, Neville is also lying
awake; and describes his pale face and glittering eyes when he says
he's going to enter the third-floor corridor--funny that we should
encounter the same description as Snape leaves to encounter Voldemort
near the end of GoF!) but generally, her pov character is Harry, and I
see no reason for her to switch to Petunia or Snape in DH.

What I think will happen is Petunia showing Harry the letters from
Dumbledore (and maybe some old Muggle photographs that she's kept
hidden from Vernon?). I expect that she'll tell him what she knows
about the WW and Lily (and "that awful boy," and maybe even apologize
for being so afraid that he'd blow up the house that she tried to
suppress his magic. (Or whatever--a first-person narrative from
Petunia resembling the one from Barty Crouch Jr. minus Veritaserum.
It's possible that we'll get something of the same, minus any apology
because it would be out of character, from Snape. But either way, we
won't get inside their heads. We'll only hear what they tell Harry.
(It's possible, however, that we'll have another "Spinner's End"-style
chapter involving Snape and Draco; I'd like that because I want to
know what's happening with them, but it won't help *Harry.* Another
possibility is a conversation between Harry and Draco that sheds a bit
of light on Snape, but the problem is, Draco is also a wanted fugitive
and will be in danger of capture if he shows his face in the WW.

Obviously, I could be wrong on all counts. But as far as narrative
technique goes, JKR only deviates from Harry's pov when she has a good
reason, and since DH is going to be about finding the answers and
wrapping everything up (with, no doubt, some red herrings and wrong
conclusions along the way so we'll know this is really a Potter book
;-) ), I don't think she'll go outside his pov. No "Riddle House"-
style chapters in particular. Or, if she does, she'll find a way for
Harry to discover that information, too.

> > Dung:
> > Well actually, having a dead SK is perfect, because then nobody
else can ever be told the secret again. The weakness of fidelius lies
in the SK, while the SK stood firm, the Potters were safe, if the SK
had died without revealing the secret, their hiding place would have
been completely safe.
> 
> Jen: Okay, that makes sense and also means it would be dumb of LV to
actually kill the SK then.  Not that he wouldn't anyway. ;)  <snip>

Carol responds:

I don't think that swearing to die rather than telling the Secret is
part of the Fidelius Charm, as Dung suggests. It's not an Unbreakable
Vow (which strikes me as very Dark magic); it's just placing a secret
inside a trusted person. Certainly, Peter didn't die from revealing
the Secret. He just violated the Fidelity placed in him.

But what I don't understand is why they thought that the SK would be
in danger at all. The Fidelius Charm wasn't common knowledge, AFAWK,
until Sirius Black's name as the supposed SK appeared in the Daily
Prophet after his arrest. The only reason Voldemort knew about the
Fidelius Charm was because Peter told him not only that he was the
Secret Keeper but the Secret itself (or maybe just the Secret?). So
Voldemort had no reason to go after the SK (whether or not he would
have killed him after forcing him to tell the Secret).

I've never understood why Sirius Black thought he should go into
hiding as a decoy (which he didn't do, in any case. He checked on
Peter Pettigrew instead). It's not as if the whole WW knew about the
Fidelius Charm. (DD knew about it because he'd suggested it and he may
have told Snape, but they didn't know the Secret itself or who the SK
was.) Was it *Lupin* rather they were trying to throw off track with
the SK switch, so that he would tell Voldemort to go after the wrong
person? But why tell Lupin the plan in the first place if they thought
that he was the spy? (It's clear from PoA that they did tell Lupin the
plan; they just didn't tell him the actual Secret or about the change
in SKs.) Just cast the Charm using Sirius as the SK, go into hiding,
and keep their mouths shut. No need for Black to hide, so they would
think, because only he, the Potters, and Wormtail would know the
Secret. (Of course, it wouldn't have worked with Wormtail as the spy;
he'd have told Voldemort that Black was the SK and would have been in
real danger, but it would have worked like a charm, pun intended, if
Lupin had really been the spy. Ironically, Black's brilliant SK-switch
idea shifted the danger from himself to the Potters, more unintended
consequences, a favorite JKR motif.) 

At any rate, if Lupin had really been the spy, the obvious thing to do
would be to keep the whole Fidelius Charm plan from him, not just the
Secret itself. That way, Voldemort could never have learned about it
at all. I guess that Black was trying to undo the supposed blunder of
revealing it to him with the SK switch.

I'm getting off-track here since we're supposed to be discussing what
Petunia knew, but I'm trying to sort out my own confusion. I do think
that Dumbledore, who informs people of what he thinks they need to
know, would have told Petunia that the Potters were in serious danger
and that he feared that they had told the secret of their hiding place
to a trusted friend who was actually Voldemort's spy, and he may have
given the name of that friend as Sirius Black (see Petunia's terrified
reaction in PoA when Vernon says, "Lunatic could be coming up the
street right now!" Poa Am. ed. 17). He wouldn't necessarily have
mentioned the Fidelius Charm. He would think, based on the Prophecy,
that Harry would survive, and would want to prepare Petunia for the
possibility that she would need to take Harry in to protect him from
the clutches of his supposedly evil godfather. and finding Harry on
her doorstep would confirm DD's dire predictions. (Presumably he
promised her some sort of protection if she took in her orphaned
nephew, which she did "grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly,
yet still she took [him]." And she knows about *Harry's* blood
protection, which DD says is mentioned in the letter tucked into
Harry's blanke, so maybe DD states there that it will extend to her
family, too, of she takes him in, OoP Am. ed. 836.)

Jen:
> Now, to answer the above comments: I'm not sure why they went to the
trouble of making Sirius Harry's godfather if they didn't hope by 
some slim chance that Harry might survive them?  I understand it may
have been symbolic only but that's not something the WW seems big on,
especially during a time when there's a war on and the Potters are on
the losing side.  It seems more like a functional thing to have a
'rushed' ceremony appointing Sirius as Harry's godfather at the last
minute with the expectation he might be called into service.  
> 
> Although the more I think about it, the more I wonder why.  Wouldn't
it be more likely if they trust Sirius completely that *he* would die
first when Voldemort kills him out of frustration for not revealing
the secret?  As Dung said, the Potters were the *last* line of 
defense, not the first.  Hmmm.  

Carol responds:

My impression is that the christening or baptism or whatever ceremony
made Sirius Black Harry's godfather took place somewhat earlier than
the Fidelius Charm, when they first realized that they were in danger.
It's possible that DD told them about the Prophecy without telling
them its details, but even if he didn't, they were both Order members,
and Order members were being killed off one by one, and the
possibility that Harry could be orphaned would occur to them as it
occurs to Molly regarding her own underage children in OoP. They would
have known through DD (who knew it through Snape) that there was a spy
in the Order, and they would have turned to their most trusted friend
in hopes that if they were killed, he would take care of Harry.

DD for all we know, may have asked Lily if she had any relatives in
case alternate arrangements were necessary; I doubt that he could have
anticipated the blood protection, but I do think he suspected that
Black was the spy and might betray them, even before the danger became
so acute that he suggested the Fidelius Charm. Or he may have taken it
upon himself to find a possible guardian for Harry in case the need
arose, in which case he would already have "corresponded" with
Petunia, who seems to be expecting but not wanting to hear, bad news
about her sister in SS/PS. ("Er--Petunia, dear--you haven't heard from
your sister lately, have you?" ... ."No, she said sharply. Why?" SS
Am. ed. 7.) She hasn't heard directly from Lily, but I think she's
heard from DD.

Anyway, I think that the christening or baptism predates the Fidelius
charm by some months. The absence of either Pettigrew or Lupin from
the ceremony indicates that DD had told them, or they had figured out
for themselves, that the spy giving out information about Order
members is someone close to them. Black, of course, would have been in
as much danger as everyone else, but he was the only one they truly
trusted. And he would not yet have been in any special danger as the
supposed SK if my idea of the timing is right. Certainly, there's no
point in making him Harry's godfather *after* the Fidelius Charm, and
at that point, the Potters were in hiding, anyway.

> Jen:  

<snip> What interests me the most is why Dumbledore might contact
Petunia in the first place.  He either did that because Lily asked or
he decided to contact Petunia on his own imo.  The two reasons I can
think of for Lily requesting it of him would be 1) wanting Dumbledore
to send something to Petunia since they are estranged and she knows it
highly possible she's going to die (in which case Petunia may have a
letter or object for Harry that she finally coughs up in DH), or 2)
concern for Harry's future. <snip>

Carol:

Or she could have feared that Sirius Black, Harry's godfather, might
die, too. James gives DD the Invisibility Cloak, which rather suggests
that he expects to die and expects Harry to live. Maybe DD did tell
them about the Prophecy when he suggested the Fidelius Charm, and
maybe Lily mentioned her sister as an option if anything happened to
them and their intended SK. That seems to me more likely than DD just
taking matters into his own hands. Certainly, Petunia has at least one
letter that she was supposed to have shown Harry already, the one that
was tucked inside his blankets, but Lily wouldn't know about that.
Concern for Harry's safety and future would be her sole motive in
giving DD her sister's name, I think. Of course, she wouldn't expect
Sirius Black to betray them, but she could easily have expected him to
be killed as the McKinnons and Bones and Prewitts and Benjy Fenwick
and so many others had been. Better to take him out of the WW
altogether if anything happened. (She might even have thought, as
James would not have, that Harry would be safer with her sister than
with the recklessly courageous, Voldemort-hating Sirius Black. Just a
thought!)
> 
Jen:
> But what would cause Dumbledore to contact an unknown relative on
his own if that's what occurred?  The only plausible reason I can
think of would be Harry's future.  Dumbledore knew the entire
propehcy, understood how Voldemort operated and must have at least
*suspected* Voldemort would attempt to kill one of the babies once it
was clear he'd been handed the the first part of the prophecy. 
Dumbledore knowing the entire prophecy also meant knowing 'and the
Dark Lord will mark him as his equal,' which Dumbledore could have
surmised meant the baby being attacked would be marked but not die. <snip>

Carol responds:

Exactly. DD may state that the Prophecy would never have come true if
Voldemort hadn't acted on it (paraphrased), but that doesn't mean he
has no belief in it at all. "Mark him as his equal" and "either must
die at the hand of the other" imply that "the one with the power to
defeat the Dark Lord" will survive their first encounter. IOW, that
encounter will somehow "mark" him and give him powers somehow "equal"
to those of the Dark Lord (and possibly "the power that the Dark Lord
knows not" as well).

And if, as I postulate, Snape showed DD his faded or fading Dark Mark
immediately after the attack on GH, DD would have deduced from it that
LV had been somehow defeated (not utterly or permanently destroyed
because I'm sure that DD already suspected at least one Horcrux) and
also that Harry, "the one with the power," had survived. And he would
have sent Hagrid immediately to GH with orders to take Harry to his
relatives in Surrey to make sure that Sirius Black, their supposed
betrayer, didn't get there first and take Harry straight to Voldemort.

Carol, thinking that DD was looking out for Harry's best interests in
placing him with the Dursleys and that he had that plan in mind, minus
the blood protection (he could not have anticipated Lily's sacrifice,
or could he?), for at least a week or two before the Potters died