Snape - a werewolf bigot?? Was: Say it isn't so Lupin!!!

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 170119

> > Sherry:
> > 
> > I think Snape is prejudiced against werewolves in general--the
> > way he refers to and speaks to Lupin--and against Lupin in 
> > particular.  <snip>

Mike:
It's funny, how Hagrid can call Filch a "sneakin' Squib" and that is 
called a prejudicial remark, yet when Snape makes his numerous snide 
werewolf comments and calls Lily Evans a "filthy Mudblood", they are 
put down to situational animosity. What, praytell, was Snape's 
animosity against the girl who seemed to be trying to stop the 
bullying?

I agree with Sherry, Snape has outed himself as a bigot, or at the 
very least, has freely used bigotted speech. We get one look at 
things in the Marauder's school days, in SWM, after which James and 
Sirius are branded as bullies, as in, they must have done that 
before. But Snape's use of the word "Mudblood" has to be an 
aberration?! IMO this is a blatant double standard. If James and 
Sirius must have been picking on Snape for years, why shouldn't we 
also believe that Snape has used that highly offensive term before?



> wynnleaf
> 
> JKR has *already* shown that Lupin would make choices -- as a human,
> not a werewolf -- to let his friends bully and torment another 
> person when it was his clear responsibility as a prefect to attempt 
> to stop it.  He does this (self confessed) because of not wanting 
> to lose friends.  Further, he keeps secrets which could endanger an 
> entire school of children, once again (self confessed) in order to 
> keep the headmaster's goodwill.  Why would being a werewolf create 
> some sort of mitigating circumstance?  

Mike:
Lupin was weak, that is an accepted fact, imo. That is his *excuse* 
for the way he acts. Keep in mind that he has had to deal with the 
*very real* debilitating condition for a long time without the aid of 
a Wolfsbane potion. Also, by all indications, he has had to deal with 
being shunned from chilhood because of his condition. As I say, it is 
an *excuse* not a valid reason. But I might say that this qualifies 
as a "mitigating circumstance". But read on, let's compare to Snape.



> wynnleaf
> As regards Snape's dislike of Lupin, yes, Snape plays the werewolf
> "card" to insult Lupin.  But my impression has always been that he
> does that, not because of a general bigotry against werewolves (who 
> he never insults in a general way), but because he hates Lupin in
> particular -- for his very human weaknesses -- and will use 
> anything, however unfairly, to insult him.

Mike:
As you say further down and Carol brought up in another post, Snape 
has a real fear of werewolves, founded or unfounded, and a hatred for 
what almost happened at the jaws of this particular werewolf. So is 
it bigotry, or can it more accurately be called rational, in Snape's 
mind, distrust of anything werewolf? I would say that Snape is freely 
using a bigotted term out of a perceived rational hatred for a member 
of the oppressed group. Like you said, wynnleaf, much like an 
adolescent would do.


> wynnleaf
> To me, it's a little similar to Snape's mudblood comment. There
> isn't any other instance in canon to really support Snape 
> being a pureblood elitist -- his Half Blood Prince name implies 
> the opposite.  It seems far more likely to me that he used the 
> term just because it was an available weapon at hand to use, not
> because he really had any problem with Lily being muggleborn.

Mike:
Here I disagree. We *have* only one instance in canon from Snape's 
school days. As I said above, if it was good enough to brand James 
and Sirius, why isn't it good enough to brand Severus? Draco doesn't 
call Hermione a Mudblood every time he's in close proximity to her, 
yet we are all convinced of his pure-blood superiority beliefs. 

But we have a one-for-one correlation with Severus and Lily and the 
use of "Mudblood". Until I'm informed differently, I'm calling Snape 
a bigot on this account. There is a lot of water under the bridge 
since that utterance, yet Snape has no problem using another bigotted 
term in PoA. Now, where's the canon that proves he's not a bigot?


> wynnleaf
> 
<snip>
> Further, Snape never trusts Lupin.  And the thing is, Snape was 
> right. 

Mike:
No, Snape was wrong about Lupin. Snape thought and *stated* in the 
Shack that Lupin was helping Sirius get into the grounds. Not turning 
state's witness against Sirius is not the same as "helping". Plus 
both of them, and Dumbledore, knew that Sirius knew about the Shack's 
secret passage onto the grounds. When you add in that Sirius was 
*not* the traitor, was *not* trying to kill Harry, then I don't see 
how Snape can be considered to be *right* about anything other than 
the given that Lupin was weak.

 
> wynnleaf
> Even though his assumptions were in many ways wrong, and 
> even though it turned out that Sirius was not the traitor, Snape 
> was *right* to distrust Lupin, who was keeping secret vital 
> information and, for all Lupin knew, was endangering the 
> students solely for his own benefit.


Mike:
Which brings up another point regarding Lupin and Snape. Why 
shouldn't Lupin be just as suspicious of Snape as Snape is of Lupin? 
They all knew that Snape was "fascinated by the Dark Arts, he was 
famous for it at school." That he ran around with a "gang of 
Slytherins who nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters." And that 
even though Snape was never accused of being a DE (Sirius is wrong 
here), that Snape was "clever and cunning enough to keep himself out 
of trouble." <all GoF p.531, US> Ergo, Lupin should have suspected 
that Snape had been and could still be a Death Eater.

Lupin had convinced himself that Sirius was getting into the castle 
because he was using Dark Arts, something Snape was famous for. That 
Sirius had turned traitor and become a DE, something that Lupin and 
his running mates suspected Snape had done (and in this case, their 
suspicions were well founded - Snape had become a DE). Why shouldn't 
all the evidence point to Snape as Sirius' accomplice, from Lupin's 
perspective?

Lupin should have revealed Sirius was an animagus. That's one secret 
that Lupin is definitely at fault for not coming forward. But how 
many people died from Lupin keeping this secret? None. Close calls in 
their youth, but still none.

Snape has a secret from his younger days that others may be 
interested in also. Snape overheard a certain prospective divination 
teacher make a prophesy and reported that news to his boss. How many 
people died from this *secret*? By my count, two. So who has the 
moral high ground at the time of PoA, Snape or Lupin? Lupin made 
mistakes, Snape made mistakes. Which ones mistakes were more costly?
 

> wynnleaf
> He's[Snape] used to using legilimency to determine lies, truth, and 
> other intent.  It's possible that he really *can't* fathom Lupin's
> mind and blames it on his being a werewolf.  I tend to think there 
> are enough instances of Lupin appearing to use legilimency and 
> occlumency to guess that he does have these abilities, and that 
> Snape may run up against a mental wall when trying to "fathom" 
> Lupin.

Mike:
I think Lupin uses a rudimentary or passable form of Legilmency, on 
several occasions. But I don't remember any time that he's credited 
with using Occlumency. I realize these two are closely related 
disciplines, but it seems that Occlumency is the more difficult to 
master. I just don't get the feeling that Lupin is that good at 
Legilemency and probably very poor if at all able with Occlumency. 
Besides, Snape has shown an aptitude for detecting when someone is 
trying to use Occlumency against him. JMHO.

Mike