Snape - a werewolf bigot?? Was: Say it isn't so Lupin!!!

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 170133


> > houyhnhnm:
> >
> > This is exactly what makes me uncomfortable with the
> > idea that Lupin represents people with disabilities or
> > chronic diseases.  Parents in the real world who do not
> > want their children attending school with another child
> > who is, say, HIV positive *would* be acting out of pure
> > predjudice because there is no rational basis for their
> > fear.  But a werewolf is a different matter.  Werewolves
> > really are dangerous.  To the argument that Rowling can't
> > have Lupin be a traitor because it would send a bad message
> > about people with disabilities, I would say it seems to me
> > that she has already done that.  There may be anti-werewolf
> > *bigotry* in the WW, but Rowling has not shown it to be
> > groundless.  On the contrary.
> 
> > Lupin, in human form, may not relish the thought of
> > biting or killing humans (though the fear of doing so
> > is not enough to make him cautious), but without
> > Wolfsbane, Lupin transformed is, in his own words,
> > "a fully fledged monster."
> >
> > Being HIV positive or having a seizure disorder (to
> > name just a couple of conditions that do excite prejudice
> > in the real world) do not put other people at risk.
> > Being a werewolf puts other people at risk.
> >
> > If Lupin is supposed to represent people in the real
> > world, I'd say he is a little closer to the guy with
> > multiple drug resistant TB who insisted on flying half
> > way round the world without a mask, than he is to an
> > AIDS patient or someone with a physical disability.
> >
> 
> "lizzyben04"
> Great analogy. Especially because Lupin is represented as someone
> who doesn't take reasonable measures to control the "side 
effects" -
> running around Hogsmeade, not taking his medicine, etc. The way
> things are set up, IMO the WW discrimination against werewolves
> could be seen as reasonable, even correct. Having a monster running
> around schools or towns is not something most people would support.
> So, if JKR's intending to show the wrongness of "prejudice &
> discrimination" with Lupin, she's actually potentially doing the
> opposite. IMO this is just one of many places where the symbolic
> resonance fails because of a shallow approach to the topic.

wynnleaf
I realize that the word "bigot" has different connotations for 
different people.  Technically, a bigot falls more in with 
disagreement of *opinions* rather than disagreement with a state of 
being.  A bigot is "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any 
opinions differing from his own."  Which brings us to prejudice and 
wondering if Snape is showing "prejudice."  Once again, I realize 
that people have different views on exactly what constitutes 
prejudice.  However, just to check out the definitions, prejudice 
is  1a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without 
knowledge or examination of the facts. 1b. A preconceived preference 
or idea. 2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived 
judgments or convictions. 3.  Irrational suspicion or hatred of a 
particular group, race, or religion.  There's more, but those seemed 
most applicable.

Given that Snape *has* got plenty of experience with Lupin in 
particular, as well as direct experience with the deadly aspect of 
Lupin in werewolf form, I would by no means call Snape's opinions of 
Lupin "preconceived," made "without knowledge," or "irrational."  
One might not *agree* with Snape's opinions of Lupin or werewolf!
Lupin, but I don't think they actually meet the definition of 
prejudice, nor the true meaning of bigoted.

lizzyben04" 
> I just wanted to add a couple questions on ESE!Lupin. Lupin was my
> favorite character halfway through POA, but he quickly began to
> creep me out. He is extremely manipulative & prone to spinning the
> facts in order to create a favorable impression. And there's two
> things that Lupin has said that I've never understood; maybe 
someone
> else can explain this? First, he usually refers to Voldemort by
> name - and he's the only person who does this in the WW, besides DD
> & Harry. And he does it casually, w/o anxiety - while most other
> people have to force themselves to even form the word. How did 
Lupin
> get on such familiar terms? It's an anomoly that I've never seen
> explained in the text. Maybe he's just that brave, but that doesn't
> seem in line w/Lupin's personality. I almost get the impression 
that
> he *knows* Voldemort in some capacity.

wynnleaf
This is a fascinating observation and one which I've considered a 
few times as well.  Readers assume that Lupin calls Voldemort by his 
name because, like Dumbledore, he doesn't want to give in to fear of 
Voldemort.  But it's interesting that Lupin does this.  However, he 
is not the only one besides Harry and Dumbledore.  Sirius also calls 
Voldemort by his name on several occasions.  I think it likely James 
did as well.  My guess is that a number of people in the Order did 
this, probably modeling Dumbledore.

> lizzyben04"
> Second, in OOTP, Lupin says that Regulas Black was killed days 
after
> leaving the Death Eaters. How does he know this? Even Sirius, his
> brother, only has some vague idea that Regulas tried to leave at
> some point & was killed by somebody. Lupin knows exactly when
> Regulas left, and exactly when he was killed. I don't know how 
Lupin
> could know when Regulas left the Death Eaters - unless he was in
> contact w/the Death Eaters as well. These things always made me
> wonder about him, though there might be a perfectly reasonable
> explanation.

wynnleaf
Another interesting thought.  I don't think Sirius' comments show us 
whether or not Sirius knew when Regulus died.  He comments that 
Regulus wanted to back out and was killed, probably on Voldemort's 
orders.  But Sirius didn't say anything that would indicate that he 
didn't know when the death took place.  And there was a death date 
on the tapestry, although we don't know if that was just the year, 
or included the actual date.

However, Lupin's comment shows us something else.  Lupin knew not 
only when Regulus *died* -- which Sirius may have also known -- but 
also when Regulus was discovered to have turned from Voldemort.  
Otherwise, how could he possibly know that Regulus only survived a 
few days?  A few days from *what*?  Well, one assumes a few days 
from Voldemort discovering that Regulus had turned.  But how would 
Lupin know exactly when Regulus turned, or when Voldemort found 
out?  I doubt Lupin was in *Regulus'* confidence.  Hm...  Or was 
he?  And how did Voldemort know Regulus turned?

Very interesting questions.

Could just be another Lupin-plot-hole, of which there are getting to 
be so many that in itself is suspicious.

wynnleaf