[HPforGrownups] Werewolves and RL equivalents (was:Re: Snape - a werewolf bigot?...)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 170306

> wynnleaf
> How is it that the "sexual predator" parallel *can't* be used 
> because they are "always on the prowl," whereas Lupin is only 
> driven to kill others monthly, but you *can* parallel being a 
> werewolf to real life diseases even though those who are afflicted 
> are *never* "on the prowl?" 
> 
> Seems to me a bit arbitrary.

Dana:
Virusses do not feed on people because they want power over that 
person but it is the way they survive and multiply and thus are able 
to exist. That seems like what a werewolf does, doesn't it. It 
doesn't act like a human it acts like a virus. 

As I said when Lupin transforms he is no longer human, he is no 
longer Lupin but a sexual predator is always that person living 
within his own fantasy. 

Magpie:
But I think what that proves is that wynnleaf is using a different analogy
when she brings up child predators. You're talking about what's going
inside the person/werewolf and saying (correctly) that a sexual predator is
a person and therefore in control of his own will, who chooses to give into
his own bad compulsion. He is responsible for his actions in a way that
Lupin is not responsible for his actions when he is transformed without
taking wolfsbane (and Greyback is more responsible because when in human
form he has chosen to do these things and set things up so that he will get
the results he wants as a werewolf).

Wynnleaf, I thought, was not talking about judging the person but *the
danger to other people* that makes them nervous about being near the
person. And there it seems to me it's a perfectly good analogy--if an
obviously limited and imperfect one. Because unlike other diseases, this is
one that puts other people in grave danger if a slight mistake is made on
someone's part. 

Alla:
It is not prejudice to be afraid of werewolf? Sure, it is not, when 
such person is a werewolf, any person, not just Lupin, no? To be 
exact  it is not prejudice to be afraid of werewolf during full 
moon. What exactly we are arguing about again, lol?

Magpie:
LOL! I don't know--but maybe something like the exchange with Dana above.
The difficulty with werewolves is how do you balance the rational fear of
the transformed werewolf with the person with the disease. A person being
uncomfortable about sending their kid to school with a teacher who's a
werewolf could be prejudiced against werewolves, or they could just doubt
the safety precautions if something goes wrong. 

Alla:
What I am saying is prejudice is to deny werewolves jobs and any 
sort of normal lives, when they are **not** werewolves, when they 
are humans. Yes, regardless of the fact that they are dangerous once 
a month. If you are disagreeing with that, which I do not think that 
you do based on what you wrote in the past, then maybe that is what 
we are arguing about? I am confused.I think that I also said several times
in this thread that precautions should be taken. I think the existence of
potion shows that it is not as hard as WW likes to imagine, taking
precautions I 
mean. It is not easy either of course, when is the change easy?

Magpie:
Maybe I'm not arguing with you at all, now that I try to figure it out.:-)
Because I agree that it's discriminatory to deny jobs and lives to people
with this illness. There are forms of controlling it. There just needs to
be a compromise between so that the rational fears someone might have
(wanting to make sure there are many layers of protection around the
dangerous aspect) and the rights of the person who's the werewolf. Right
now the WW is only basing things on fear, and not the actual person with
the disease, who is also a member of the society. As I've said, the fear is
now counter-productive even in terms of protecting people. If the society
learned to take a more rational, compassionate attitude towards Lupin they
could have a good teacher and probably also better safety in having him at
the school-and the werewolves would be less vulnerable to Voldemort as
well. In canon if Lupin worked at the school Dumbledore didn't just have to
set up some precautions like the wolfsbane and Shack, there also had to be
secrecy, which made things more difficult. They couldn't deal with the
possibility for human error because it wasn't going on openly. It's fine to
say that it's not Lupin who's the monster--that's true. But there's also
the separate issue of practically dealing with the monster he's been
saddled with himself.

Alla:
Yes again to everything you write LOLOLOL. Oh, maybe that is what 
disagreeable, I think it is wrong to be prejudiced against **any** 
person who is werewolf, or I guess to be afraid of any person who is 
werewolf, when such person is not a werewolf. Unless of course such 
person chooses to do evil when in control of his mental facilities, 
like Greyback.

Do you disagree with that?

Magpie:
I agree with it. I really used the word "prejudice" incorrectly. Being
afraid of Greyback isn't prejudice against werewolves, it's reacting to a
violent, evil-minded person. This one just happens to have a scary weapon
at his disposal because he also happens to be a werewolf. 

Alla:

Okay, finally I know we disagree over that. LOLOLOL. You think Lupin 
did not take potion that night on purpose? Are you sure that you do 
not support Evil Lupin after all <g>?

Magpie;
No, no. It's more subtle. Lupin himself did not make any conscious decision
to not take his Potion. It's not like Greyback positioning himself near
people or making any sort of evil decision. But as a literary creation this
is a pattern. The one time we have Lupin dealing with his Potion he's
showing resistance to it--it's for a human reason that's clear in the
context of the scene in retrospect, but I don't think it was an accident
that JKR put it that way. She established in that scene that having the
Potion didn't just make if a non-issue. Instead she showed Lupin in control
of taking it or not. It's Snape in the scene who's all about the Potion
being taken as a priority. It's not about Lupin being evil, it's JKR's
using repitition (as always) to set things up.

What it says about Lupin's character is maybe that he's created like so
many of JKR's others, around a conflict. Sirius tries to protect Harry
telling him not to be reckless, but is reckless himself and tries to coax
him out of Hogwarts. Hermione wants freedom for House Elves but then tries
to make them do things she thinks they should do.

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