Werewolves and RL equivalents (was:Re: Snape - a werewolf bigot?...)

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 170318

> Magpie:
> But I think what that proves is that wynnleaf is using a difference 
> analogy when she brings up child predators. You're talking about 
> what's going inside the person/werewolf and saying (correctly) that 
> a sexual predator is a person and therefore in control of his own 
> will, who chooses to give into his own bad compulsion. He is 
> responsible for his actions in a way that Lupin is not responsible 
> for his actions when he is transformed without taking wolfsbane 
> (and Greyback is more responsible because when in human
> form he has chosen to do these things and set things up so that he 
> will get the results he wants as a werewolf).
<snip>

Dana:
What I was trying to say, and you seemed to be missing the details of 
the difference, is that a sexual predator is like that by choice. 
Sexual predator get off on their fantasies and they start to live in 
that fantasy so much that they want that fantasy to come alive, they 
want to make it to become reality and they make consious choices to 
make it so. Most of them specifically choose types of victims that 
fit within their fantasy pattern and their fantasy increases and 
becomes bolder, the more they get a way with their offenses. 
Although LV is not a sexual predator his fantasies about being the 
most powerful wizard that ever existed is driving his actions just as 
him wanting to be immortal. It is still a choice that he made and he 
doesn't care what he has to do to make that fantasy a reality. 

Lupin is indeed not responsible for his actions as a werewolf because 
his human self is no longer there to control any type of instinct 
that the werewolf part represents, he has no choices when he is in 
his werewolf form, he can't say well I'm not going to act as a 
werewolf tonight, at least not without the potion, that is why it is 
emphasized that he keeps his human mind if he takes it and that he 
bit and scratched himself when he was young in the absence of others 
to bite. 

He is only responsible for his actions as a human and if he wants to 
prevent his werewolf self to bite or kill anyone then his HUMAN side 
has to take that responsibility and take actions to prevent himself 
from coming within striking range of anyone. Just as a person 
infected with AIDS has to make a conscious decision to not want to 
infect others but he still remains infectious. That does not go away 
just because the person has taken responsibility. He can't control 
the virus in itself just his own life-style and the responsibility 
coming with it and he too in case of accidents can forget he still is 
infectious as it is not just transmitted through sexual intercourse. 

In case of sex offenders their human self is what makes them do the 
things they want to do. It is not merely human weakness but actually 
the strong urges of wanting to act upon these fantasies that drive 
them forward and gives them power over their victims. They know it is 
wrong, that is why most of them kill their victim, so them not being 
able to tell what is done to them, will not prevent the predator to 
do it again and again. And many of them become very cleaver and 
manipulative not only on how to get their victim but also to avoid 
capitation. 

Lupin's werewolf part has no capability of planning his actions, it 
is just an instinctive drive, like that of a real wolf that hunts his 
prey to survive, to eat and the werewolf will bite or kill anyone 
that crosses his path. His strikes will be indiscriminately, without 
preferences or prejudice of what kind of victim he is dealing with. 

The instinct is one of survival not just to eat but to exist. A 
sexual predator however can exist and survive without ever having to 
do anything; it is only the fantasy that he keeps alive with acting 
on it and it will die with him no matter how many victims he makes. 
Lupin himself as a human also does not have to do anything to survive 
or to eat but if no werewolf ever bites anyone then the species 
becomes extinct (if AIDS is not able to spread it becomes extinct in 
the same way). It is not the human form that drives the action. The 
human is just the carrier. 

Magpie:
> Wynnleaf, I thought, was not talking about judging the person but  
*the danger to other people* that makes them nervous about being 
> near the person. And there it seems to me it's a perfectly good 
analogy--if an obviously limited and imperfect one. Because unlike 
other diseases, this is one that puts other people in grave danger if 
a slight mistake is made on someone's part.
<snip>

Dana:
I think you mean Betsy as Wynnleaf only commented on the prowling bit 
which werewolves actually do not do (except Greyback because he is 
driving by other things then just his werewolf instinct) they just 
hunt like a real animal hunts. They will not prowl until the right 
victim crosses their path they will hunt anyone that crosses their 
path. 

Lupin does not posse a treat in his human form so it is actually an 
overreaction to be nervous when you are near him. You do not want to 
leave your kids in the hands of any sexual predator under any 
circumstance because these people actually do not want to see they 
are doing wrong because their fantasy gives them so much pleasure and 
it is much more important to them then doing the right thing. You do 
not want to join up with the DE because there is no way out if you 
change you mind. LV made the rule that you can come in but you can 
never leave because leaving his reign makes him look weak. So his 
fantasy of ultimate power is driving him to have total control over 
other peoples will and choices and that is what these kinds of 
predators do. 

And before everybody jumps all over me no Lupin did not enjoy going 
out and create victims when he was young, he had fun with his friends 
who made the transformations bearable and something to enjoy instead 
of feared. They did not laugh because Lupin almost got to a person 
but laughed because they thought they had control enough and got away 
with it. 

The analogy is not perfectly good in my opinion because of the simple 
fact that people with disease and thus Lupin have no choice to turn 
there disease off on the basis of it being wrong to harm another 
human being, they can try the best they can to avoid it, while a 
sexual predator would not be a sexual predator if he would chose the 
right thing to do. People react to everything they do not know and 
diseases are one of them and people not wanting to have a sexual 
predator in their midst are actually right especially if they have 
kids but people who state that someone with AIDS or any other type of 
disease has to move if they live next to them are wrong. 

Knowledge on how and when someone is infectious can empower you to 
prevent getting infected yourself even in case of Lupin (and how his 
friends got around him posing a danger to them and no I'm not 
suggesting that everyone will just have to become an animagus but I'm 
just saying that knowledge can indeed prevent the danger a werewolf 
could pose) but knowledge about sexual predators will never make you 
able to be safe from them if you are their next chosen victim, just 
like the WW can never be safe from LV because you will never know 
what he will think off next to reach his self-set goals.

JMHO

Dana