Werewolves and RL equivalents (was:Re: Snape - a werewolf bigot?...)

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 170363

Betsy Hp:
> Ah, but not according to some.  There are pedophiles who claim they 
> are the way they are because they themselves were preyed upon as 
> children.  Or you've got the serial killer, Ted Bundy, who said to 
> his arresting officer, "I wish you had killed me", suggesting that 
> part of himself was horrified by his actions.  How *true* those 
> sort of claims are, I don't know and won't pretend to.  However, I 
> do suspect that these sort of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde killers (charming 
> and sweet on one hand; horrifyingly brutal on the other) gave rise 
> to the werewolf myth.  Including the common werewolf plea: kill me.
<snip>

Dana:
The problem sexual predators are dealing with are not mental diseases 
in the sense that something is affecting the brain's chemical 
balances and in that way their behavior. They have a social disorders 
affecting their take on the world and there place in it. Many types 
of social stimulation can bring this type of behavior on but it is 
certainly not brought on by disease factors. To be honest with you I 
do not care what any type of sexual predator brings to the table to 
excuse his own behavior. There are many people that have to deal with 
the same kind of social stimulations but still do not result in 
behaving that way. 

Ted Bundy did not say kill me because he was sorry for what he had 
done but because he was sorry he was caught. He kept his claim of 
being innocent until he was incarcerated for a long time and wanted 
his memoirs published and this took the need for him to confess. 
Sexual predators come into their behavior by feeling utterly 
powerless about the world they live in and they start to create a 
fantasy in which they are in total control. Many resort to torturing 
animals first, before they move on to human victims. There are 
different categories of sex offenders but all of these offences are 
about dominating their victim. Some resort to torturing their victims 
while others do not, some have a very few victims or repeat their 
offense on one and the same victim for years while others move 
through society claiming as many victims as they can.  

This analogy fits much better with LV (without the sexual part that 
is) and the contrast Harry provides to having similar upbringings but 
where different choices in life can lead you in opposite directions. 
Where LV became a sociopath and lost all compassion in his search for 
ultimate power and will go to any length to reach his goals, Harry 
has embraced friends and a social structure around him that makes him 
more compassionate about many things then his fellow students. 

It is like Sirius said about his parents being sympathetic to LV's 
ideas at first until they learned what LV was willing to do. Many 
people at Ted Bundy's trial did not believe he was really guilty of 
the crimes he was accused off because he was so charismatic and many 
women started to dye their hair brown and wrote love letters and 
wanted to marry him until they learned that he really did these 
crimes and was proud of it. 

JKR has used the basis of myths to create her own but her werewolf 
story is not based on the actual myths or folklore. She in HBP makes 
Harry and Lupin himself state that werewolves do not regularly kill 
but under certain circumstances they can. The main objective of a 
werewolf in JKR's story is not about killing the victim but about 
infecting the victim to make another werewolf. The werewolf reason 
for wanting to bite another human is about reproduction and thus 
about existence. 


Betsy Hp:
> That's not completely accurate.  Yes, a transformed werewolf in 
> JKR's world doesn't seem to be a thinking creature; it seems that 
> nothing of the host remains and the werewolf is solely about the 
> hunt.  But his prey *is* specific.  The werewolf hunts only humans. 
> A deer will not do (fortunately for James).
<snip>

Dana:
As I stated above the werewolf's main drive to bite another human is 
about reproduction and because he can't turn animals into werewolves, 
the species carrier basis is with humans. The human aids virus (and I 
apologize for using this virus as an example over and over but it is 
the most publicized virus there is and not me thinking that JKR had 
this in mind or that no other disease would make a good analogy) is 
not transmittable (unless it mutates and then it is no longer the 
same virus) to other species and therefore it will not be able to 
reproduce and thus can't exist in a different kind of carrier (in its 
current form). 

Hagrid in PoA was scared that Lupin had attacked Buckbeak and asked 
Lupin about it but Lupin did not reply that a werewolf never kills 
other animals but stated according to Hagrid that he had not eaten 
anything. Prongs was not just a deer but a stag (yes, I know he is a 
male deer and that is what I mean) and mythology they cannot be 
easily killed by a wolf (as it needs a pack to bring down a stag) or 
other types of animal predators unless they are mortally injured and 
thus incapable to defend themselves. It would not be easy for a 
werewolf to just kill a stag and that is why JKR chose James animagus 
to be a stag. 

In my opinion people focus to much on the killing bit while the 
werewolf hunger for blood is actually not about killing its victim 
and we only hear about one victim that dies as a result of a werewolf 
attack and it was attacked by a very specific person (Greyback) that 
even has a thrust for blood if it is not a full moon. It no longer is 
part of his wolfishness but part of his human evilness.  


Betsy Hp:
> Though, hmmm...  I do wonder now how specfic the werewolf is about 
> his human vicitms.  While Fenrir has to position himself by a 
> chosen victim, how does the werewolf know to seek out the child in 
> the household rather than the parents?  I can't imagine Fenrir 
> being able to creep into his chosen one's bedroom to await 
> transformation.  So how did Fenrir arrange it that he struck young 
> Lupin and not say, Lupin's mother?  
<snip>
> Ooh, which is interesting because Fenrir is obviously putting off 
> his creepy vibe in his human form.  It's how Fenrir deals with his 
> werewolf-ism that makes him so repulsive.  So if the werewolf 
> itself isn't actually a specific kind of deviant and violent lust 
> could it be that Fenrir is actually training his "pack" into 
> directing their werewolf-ism in the path of his choosing? 
<snip> 

Dana:
A normal werewolf is not specific about its victim as Lupin himself 
indicates by his statement I could have bitten any one of the trio. 
He bites the victim that he comes across and only Fenrir seems to 
break with the werewolf indiscriminate behavior. 

Why would Fenrir not be able to creep in the chosen one's bedroom? 
This world is magical and although DD would never apparate to 
someone's front door or into someone's house, I see no reason why 
Fenrir would hold himself to the same customs of appropriate 
behavior. By the time the parents find out, Fenrir has already 
regained his human form and disapperate out of the house. That is 
probably why he likes young kids as they mostly are in their beds 
when he is out to get them. Besides of course that he is able to 
isolate them from society and under his control. 

In the western world is doesn't happen often that parents abandon 
their childeren because of diseases but unfortunately in some 
countries it does happen, sometimes because the parents have no money 
to take care of the child but sometimes also because they do not want 
to have anything to do with it. It seems that with Greyback's story 
and the ability he has to isolate these kids from society it seems 
JKR wants to resonate that parents of kids bitten by him are often 
abandoned but that Lupin's parents were pretty much an exception and 
why he was the only one at Hogwarts. 

Betsy Hp:
> But it's a similar sort of knowledge.  You are told a werewolf is 
> out there, so you take steps to protect your family from a 
> predator, telling your kids to be in on full moon nights.  
> Similarly, you warn your kids about taking candy from strangers.  
> Again, it's not a prefect match by any means.  But knowledge does 
> make you safer in  both examples because it helps you decide on 
> precautions.

Dana:
I disagree but maybe it is just me but I hardly think that JKR was 
trying to make Lupin a sex offender that was in control of his urges.
I also wasn't specifically referencing to the knowledge of keeping 
indoors on a full moon but knowledge about the disease in itself. 
This learning has already led to the invention of the wolfsbane 
potion and it made 3 students learn to become animagi. In RL it has 
led to people understanding that a person infected with HIV can't 
transmit it to you by shaking his hand or sitting next to you and it 
has let to the use of condoms and anti-viral medication to expend the 
life-span and delay the onset of AIDS. 

To me the warning you imply is precisely what people do when they 
learn someone is a werewolf, keep away from them as far as possible. 
Learning about werewolves is not only about warnings but also about 
learning that these people a perfectly normal when it is not a full 
moon, while sex offenders are always a danger and you should keep 
away from them period. Even therapy will not help as these people no 
longer are able to separate themselves from the fantasy they want to 
live in, they no longer have empathy for other people's feelings. 
They will just pretend they are cured but no amount of medication can 
stop their urges as it does not have a medical background but a 
social one. That is why it is important to pick these signals up as 
young as possible but even then it can already be too late. Again 
this analogy does fit Greyback and even LV but certainly is not a 
good analogy in my opinion to make a parallel to all werewolves and 
with JKR's own statement about Lupin being a metaphor for how people 
react to illness and disability I certainly do not believe she had 
this in mind when she created his character. 
Your analogy is precisly what people do and should not do when it 
comes to disease and disabilities but indeed should always be on 
alert when it comes to sexual predators. 

Also I saw someone mentioning about Greyback biting Bill and the 
wounds not healing, isn't it precisely what happened with Arthur when 
he was attacked by Nagini? To me it seems more an indication of 
Fenrir using something evil to make himself werewolf- like around the 
clock then it truly being something that is part of being a werewolf 
in general. Nagini is certainly no longer a "normal" Snake either. 

JMHO

Dana