[HPforGrownups] Re: Werewolves and RL equivalents

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 170441

wynnleaf: 
> The idea that poor Lupin *had* to leave because he'd been "outed"
> doesn't add up once we see Hagrid, the half-giant, "outed" all over
> the pages of the Daily Prophet, letters coming in from irate 
parents
> to Dumbledore, and guess what? Dumbledore keeps Hagrid anyway. If
> Dumbledore had wanted to attempt to weather the same storm with 
Lupin,
> he could have at least attempted the same thing he did for Hagrid 
in
> GOF. No, this was *Dumbledore's* decision as well. 

Alla:

I somehow think that being outed as half-giant and being outed as 
werewolf is very very different and think that Dumbledore had some 
choice and some possibility of keeping Hagrid and none of keeping 
Lupin. But that is just my opinion, not a fact.

Magpie:
Really? I don't. I mean, yes, it could be a different thing but at the very
least I think we would have seen Dumbledore expressing this regret that he
couldn't stand up for his wonderful teacher who was a werewolf in the way
he refuses to let the better Grubbly-Plank take over for Half-Giant Hagrid.
Maybe I'm forgetting, but it's the impression I got--basically I agree with
wynnleaf on this. Dumbledore did not fire Hagrid for being outed as a
Half-giant no matter what anyone said, nor would he. I don't think
Dumbledore would let any teacher go if it wasn't his (Dumbledore's) choice.
Even if Lupin offered his resignation, Dumbledore let him go without any
signs of struggle, and I do think the description of the parting of their
ways validates this as well.

It just seems to totally go against everything I know about Dumbledore that
he would be influenced by anyone when it came to who worked at his school.
Snape could have shouted from the rooftops that Lupin was a werewolf and I
think it would have made Dumbledore all the more determined to keep him
just for that reason. No way Snape is in charge of what teachers stay or
go. If he was forced to let someone go I think we'd see him being forced.

I'm not excusing Snape for outing him for revenge, but it seems like
Dumbledore was, in this case, not stepping up for Lupin in ways that he
would have for another teacher. And that's not surprising--we talk about
Lupin's stated motivation for not telling the information he knew about
Sirius--he didn't want Dumbledore to know what he'd done. Perhaps because
he knows that Dumbledore will take it seriously. I'm sure Dumbledore would
forgive Lupin--he does give second chances, after all, but this doesn't
seem like one of those numerous times where Dumbledore's the one
encouraging the person to try again. If he didn't decide to let Lupin go
himself, he supported his decision to leave. 

Obviously Dumbledore didn't completely cut himself off from Lupin but I
admit for me the important thing about Lupin, and one of the reasons I like
him, is that he actually shows himself to be not completely DDM. Dumbledore
can deal with people screwing up or letting their personal issues keep them
from following Dumbledore's orders perfectly, but Lupin's totally following
his own agenda and priorities in PoA. To me that seems like what's going to
keep Lupin from being one of the really inner DDM circle--he and Sirius.

Goddlefrood:
Everything we see is from Harry's PoV so 
no firm opinion can be given and it certainly would not support 
any view that might be taken that somehow Dumbledore and Lupin 
did not get along for whatever reason. They most likely had 
talked before Harry's radar nopted them together, so really 
this leads us nowhere useful, IMO.

Magpie:
Oh, I wouldn't say it led nowhere useful. It's the way JKR dramatizes his
leave-taking. We can't assume that they fought or anything, but this is the
good-bye she thought was appropriate after what happened. One might expect
something different from Dumbledore and Lupin. It's kind of tantalizing,
even if we can't know for sure.

Lizzyben:
Lupin is a "nice guy", but he can't be trusted because of his tendency to
sabotage the very people & causes he claims to be working for.

Magpie:
Yeah, funny how that works, innit?:-) That list of symptoms was really
eye-opening. Of course, we see Harry sometimes doing the same thing when
he's fighting his situation. In GoF, for instance, he procrastinates, and
he fights the Occlumency lessons. Everyone's passive-aggressive some of the
time, but I do think it's more of an important quality for some characters
like Lupin.

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