Werewolves and RL equivalents

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 170464

Magpie:
<SNIP>
I disagree 
> that she *couldn't* ever show us that Dumbledore was angry at Snape-
-
> she finds ways to hint at Dumbledore's emotions about Snape when 
she 
> wants those emotions to be seen by us.

Alla:

And I am just asking you how. When did we ever see DD being angry at 
a teacher in front of the students? Not at any adult, at the teacher, 
whom DD is making a point of showing a respect in front of Harry like 
every time IMO, even if when he should not have IMO? Do you think DD 
was angry at 
Snape for stopping Occlumency lessons for example? I think he was, 
but did I ever see it in canon? Not really. I only saw DD blaming 
himself.


Magpie:
> We generally have an idea how Dumbledore feels about which teachers 
> he wants and why, and given the situation and his response to Lupin 
> he doesn't seem to think his having to leave is a problem at all. 
> Keeping Lupin on, even if in the capacity of a different kind of 
> teacher, is not something Dumbledore does.

Alla:

And I think we have no idea whether DD considers it to be a problem 
or not, but even if he does not consider it to be a problem, which is 
surely possible, just I think another possibility is here too, but 
for Snape, DD decision would not have come to be, maybe. Curse does 
not direct the circumstances as far as we know so far, no? Just the 
bad outcome.


 
> 
> Magpie:
> I think the only choice Snape took out of their hands was the 
choice 
> to out Lupin. It just goes totally against everything we've seen of 
> Dumbledore and even the way it's played in PoA that Dumbledore 
> wanted Lupin to stay and couldn't because of Snape. I think if that 
> were the case we would most certainly see Dumbledore angry at Snape 
> and openly wanting to find a way to bring Lupin back.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Not in front of Harry, no I do not buy it. IMO of course. Dumbledore 
after all insists on professor and sir and here Dumbledore would show 
his anger to make Harry even angrier with Snape? Not IMO.


Magpie:
<SNIP>
 As to whether Dumbledore believed students were in 
> danger, that doesn't have to be the biggest factor in Dumbledore 
not 
> minding if Lupin left, but if he didn't believe they were in danger 
> he had lost grip on reality. They were in danger, obviously, when 
> they faced a transformed werewolf. He covered up for Lupin and knew 
> that he wasn't trying to hurt anyone, but I can't imagine 
Dumbledore 
> not thinking there's any danger involved in their being out there 
> with a werewolf. That would be a bit clueless on his part.
><SNIP>


Alla:

Clueless or not, Dumbledore sends them back. Alone. I agree with Jen, 
I really doubt that he thought they were in any danger. Wierd, yes, 
but that is what canon seems to be saying to me.


> colebiancardi:
> I don't think Snape had anything with the final decision of Lupin
> leaving Hogwarts.  The curse on the DADA job did it for Lupin.  It 
was
> written in stone, in other words.  Dumbledore knew it, Snape knew 
it,
> and I am sure Lupin knew it as well.  <SNIP>

Alla:

Bad outcome was written in stone - not the exact outcome, no? Cure as 
far as we know did not force Snape to do what he did, he still had 
control over his mental facilities?

The outcome of Lupin leaving could have been without every person 
knowing that he is a werewolf IMO.

> Julie:
> I guess that is the crux of the disagreement then, that Dumbledore
> *couldn't* make a choice. I and others don't agree that is the case,
> since Dumbledore pretty much does what he wants. And even on the few
> occasions he CAN'T do what he wants, because the Ministry or someone
> else has the power to stop him, we've always been made aware of that
> interference. So why not this time? No good reason I can think of,
> other than that what is happening is acceptable to Dumbledore.
> 
<SNIP>

Alla:

That is the crux of disagreement on this point to me indeed. I 
believe we had been sufficiently made aware of the interference - 
Snape exposing Lupin's secret - the secret Dumbledore was guarding 
against making public knowledge all year. I think Dumbledore was not 
telling public that he hired a werewolf for a year for a reason. 
Maybe because he felt that he would not be able to protect Lupin if 
such knowledge become public?

Funnily Dumbledore guards Snape's secret even more carefully. It 
tells me that had it been known that former DE teaches at school by 
general public, Dumbledore would have been just as powerless to 
protect Snape from angry parents.

But what Jen said I quite agree with.

Jen: 
What I meant by that is had Snape waited or not come forward
when he did, Dumbledore and Lupin would have revealed the outcome
that Lupin was leaving anyway -that's what was taken out of their
hands, the choice to present the information as they saw fit and
include the details they felt were necessary. So Snape acted
preemptively for some mystifying reason. I mean, people are arguing
he didn't do it to get Lupin fired and Snape's words had no bearing
on Lupin's job prospects or career, so why did JKR make Snape part of
the story? I don't see a purpose for him telling the students about
Lupin if it had no meaning.