Snape's dirty past uncovered WAS: Re: Werewolves and RL equivalents

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 170498


> Magpie:
> <snip> I was thinking of just that scene when I said it. Moody
insinuates that Dumbledore doesn't trust him and that he's still a DE
and Snape angrily declares that Dumbledore trusts him. I think he'd do
the same in response to parents claiming he's still a DE. He's a spy 
now. Snape isn't angry that his being a DE is known--he knows Moody 
knows this already. He's defensive about the idea that Dumbledore 
doesn't trust him now.

Carol:
Right. But he also knows that Harry is there hiding under the
Invisibility Cloak (he's seen the map and the egg), and IMO he's angry
that "Moody" is insinuating in front of Harry that Snape has a grudge
against Harry and might try to hurt him. (Crouch Jr. states that he
was doing exactly that when he confesses under the influence of
Veritaserum.)
> 
> Alla:
> 
> > I mean, you mention earlier that he outs himself to Fudge. Did he 
> > though?
> > 
> > I was under impression that Fudge was perfectly aware of Snape 
> being 
> > former DE, just did not know about Dark Mark or did I always read 
> that 
> > scene wrong?
> 
> Magpie:
> You are right, Fudge already knew--he revealed that his Dark Mark 
> was getting darker so that he was still tied to LV as a former DE. 
> But my point is that Snape has an identity now as a former DE who's 
> now a spy. Hiding that he was once a DE doesn't seem like something 
> he spends much time doing. On the contrary he is (if he's DDM) still 
> pretending to be a DE. Snape's got his own issues with his past that 
> I think are one of his prime motivations. I just don't think they're 
> the same as Lupin's with his werewolfism. Presumably the Slytherins 
> all already know Snape is a former (and then current) DE.

Carol:
I'm not so sure that Fudge already knew. The horror and shock on his
face indicate otherwise. I don't think that all of the Slytherins
necessarily know that he's a former DE (or believe, as of HBP, that
he's a current one). Draco does, but his father is a DE and a friend
of Snape's, and Bellatrix has evidently persuaded him that Snape is
out to "steal his glory." I suspect that Theo Nott and Crabbe and
Goyle also know, but unless Draco has mentioned it to the others, say
Pansy Parkinson or Blaise Zabini (the latter of whom he doesn't seem
particularly close to), I don't see why they would know it. The
students in other houses certainly don't. The worst that someone like
Percy says of Snape is that he knows a lot about the Dark Arts and
covets the DADA position. I doubt that their parents know, either, or
they'd have protested. Notice how angry Snape is when Karkaroff enters
his class and lifts up his sleeve. Snape doesn't want anyone to see
Karkaroff's Dark Mark, let alone suspect that he has one himself.
> 
> wynnleaf:
> Sorry, but I don't understand this discussion at all (not just this
post, but all these posts that assume Snape's being a Death Eater was
some deep secret).
> 
> In GOF, when Harry went into Dumbledore's pensieve, he landed in the
> courtroom at the MOM.
> 
> Magpie:
> Exactly. Snape has an identity now that includes his being a DE in 
> the past, even if everyone doesn't know about it. If a parent just 
> found out about it and complained, I think he'd be prepared to 
> defend his position now. And of course Dumbledore would defend it 
> too. <snip>

Carol:
I partially disagree. Yes, Snape would defend his position if
necessary, and absolutely, Dumbledore would defend him, but I don't
think either defense is necessary because very few people (other than
some other DEs and the Wizengamot) know that he was ever a DE. It's
not just Sirius Black, who was in Azkaban and out of the loop, who
doesn't know that Snape is a former DE (as of GoF). No one, not Fudge,
not Molly Weasley, not McGonagall, not Lupin, seems to know that he
was a DE until he reveals the Dark Mark, at which point McGonagall's
trust in him starts to depend on Dumbledore's judgment. In CoS, she
treats him as a respected colleague and follows his lead regarding
Lockhart, a marked contrast to her attitude in HBP.

Fudge comments about the names that were in the Daily Prophet, people
charged with being a Death Eater who got off (apparently by claiming
the Imperius Curse), including Malfoy, Nott, Crabbe, Goyle, Macnair,
and Avery, but Snape, who was cleared of the charge of being a Death
Eater because he turned spy for "our side" would not have been
included in this list. Nor would Snape's own hearing have been
publicized. (Note how defensive Crouch Sr. is about him, and
Dumbledore vouches for him. I think the members of the Wizengamot
would have kept their mouths shut to protect Snape.) 

Even Karkaroff's hearing was probably confined to the members of the
Wizengamot. We see Rita Skeeter at *Ludo Bagman's* hearing, which is a
bit of a media spectacle (and would no doubt have included television
cameras if the WW had them), but there's no indication of her presence
at Karkaroff's hearing. And surely, if she knew that Snape was a
former Death Dater, she would have included his name along with
half-giant Hagrid, werewolf Lupin, and paranoid ex-Auror Moody as one
of Dumbledore's questionable hiring choices. She's out for blood,
making DD look as foolish as possible. She'd never leave out a juicy
tidbit like Snape's DE past if she knew about it. And Fudge wasn't a
member of the Wizengamot at the time of Karkaroff's (or Snape's)
hearing. He was Junior Minister in the Department of Magical
Catastrophes at the time. If he'd been at any of the Pensieve
hearings, Harry would have recognized him, as he recognized DD, Moody,
Crouch, Karkaroff, Bagman, and Rita Skeeter at Bagman's hearing (and
Bagman's only).

Carol, who thinks that Snape's DE past *was* a secret, otherwise the
exposure of it would not have deterred DD from giving him the DADA
post for so long