Prophecy musings...Was: Snape's the Rescuer - Really?/Justice to Snape

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 170810

Renee:
> As I'm not a native speaker, I could very well be wrong, but wouldn't
> the wording have been slightly different if the "one" had already been
> born at the time the prophecy was made? I'd have expected it to be
> something like: "Born to those who (have) trice defied him, born when
> the seventh month died..." The way I read what JKR actually wrote, it
> can only refer to a child as yet unborn. 

Ceridwen:
JKR wrote the prophecy to sound as ambiguous as real prophecies have 
always been.  She says she chose the words carefully.

The word 'born' can be past, present and future.  I was born, someone 
is being born as I write this, someone will be born tomorrow.  Without 
the helping verb 'to be', it could either be past or future.  In this 
case, it could not have been the present, unless it was a very wet July.

A person who doesn't hear all of the prophecy can take it as either 
past or present:  "(was, or has been) Born to those who have thrice 
defied him," or "(will be) Born to those who have thrice defied him".  
In the books, we know that Harry was born after the prophecy, so we 
have a tendency to mentally add (will be).  We have an unfair advantage 
over someone who doesn't have this fact.

The line before this has no time reference, either.  "The one with the 
power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches" could mean that he will be 
born as stated, and this is how we take it because we know this is how 
it worked out; it could also mean that this person is nearing the end 
of his or her (the prophecy doesn't state sex here either) training.  
Hearing this line could easily make someone unfamiliar with the story 
think that the person has learned this power and is now approaching the 
battle which will vanquish the Dark Lord.  A person could also think 
that the "one with the power" is out of the country and about to re-
enter it.

Wording is tricky sometimes.  Died vs. Dies, as you indicate.  Though 
it isn't often used, it is not improper to say something like "he was 
born as the seventh month dies".  The seventh month dies every year.  
It's an ongoing thing.

For this, you also need to take "poetic license" into consideration.  
The prophecy as presented in the books sounds both prophetic and 
poetic, at least to me.  The prophecy sounds like it is being given in 
present tense in the overheard portion, so "dies" fits while "died" 
would be a harsh note.

The rest of the prophecy, beginning with "and the Dark Lord will mark 
him as his equal" shows that the birth as well as the marking will take 
place in the future: "will be born as the seventh month dies."  Snape 
didn't hear that part, according to Dumbledore.  Voldemort certainly 
didn't hear it, or he would not have gotten himself into a position to 
mark Harry as his equal.

The overheard portion, to me, sounds like a poetic preamble to the 
rest, the announcement that an important prophecy follows and this is 
what it concerns.  It is vague - people have argued that the "seventh 
month" might mean September, our ninth month, but the name 
means "seventh month" (actually, if I recall right, "seventh eve").

In any event, Voldemort taking the prophecy seriously caused it to 
happen.  He found someone born at the end of a future July and marked 
him as his equal.

Ceridwen.